You can’t say because the albums have sold similar amounts that the promotion has made no difference. They promoted every album. Presumably the likelihood would be their fanbase would have declined over a decade - consistent sales could point to promotion making the difference. Your conclusion doesn’t stack up.Tenlow wrote:It's not so much speculation though when the last 4 studio albums have (more or less) sold the same amount of records in the "long" run. Their fanbase in the UK buys the records and a small amount of "casual" fans. You can see the numbers yourself over the last 10 years. Of course they still need promotion in order to create media buzz, reviews, interviews, performances and what not. They even did an excellent job again this time around. But ultimately the results are suspiciously similarKiran wrote: ↑Sat 01 Feb 2020, 12:21 pmYes speculation, but I'm speculating that they are not getting much interest from non PSBs fans. PSBs are not a young group, you either like them or you don't. If you are in the don't category, no matter how many TV appearances or 5 star reviews they get, you aren't going to buy their records.Dog wrote: How could you possibly know what any of these albums would have sold without any promotion? Very hard to deduce that the signed prints, radio and magazine interviews, TV appearances and Monkey business video made no difference at all. You are wildly speculating. If they’d done no promotion this forum would have been buzzing with negativity. They’ve done an excellent job and the sales and chart position reflect this.
Is there any possibility for a Number 1 album? Look at the list of releases
Re: Is there any possibility for a Number 1 album? Look at the list of releases
Woof.
Re: Is there any possibility for a Number 1 album? Look at the list of releases
I didn't say it made no difference. I said they might have sold 10k anyway to the fanbase. So the additional 7k are still quite a differenceDog wrote: ↑Sat 01 Feb 2020, 12:50 pmYou can’t say because the albums have sold similar amounts that the promotion has made no difference. They promoted every album. Presumably the likelihood would be their fanbase would have declined over a decade - consistent sales could point to promotion making the difference. Your conclusion doesn’t stack up.Tenlow wrote:It's not so much speculation though when the last 4 studio albums have (more or less) sold the same amount of records in the "long" run. Their fanbase in the UK buys the records and a small amount of "casual" fans. You can see the numbers yourself over the last 10 years. Of course they still need promotion in order to create media buzz, reviews, interviews, performances and what not. They even did an excellent job again this time around. But ultimately the results are suspiciously similarKiran wrote: ↑Sat 01 Feb 2020, 12:21 pm Yes speculation, but I'm speculating that they are not getting much interest from non PSBs fans. PSBs are not a young group, you either like them or you don't. If you are in the don't category, no matter how many TV appearances or 5 star reviews they get, you aren't going to buy their records.
Their fanbase has been declining for many years. At a certain point though there is a remaining core that doesn't shrink much further
Regarding consistent sales: Hotspot sold slightly less than Super even though it had more formats available (2CD and cassette). So doing the math, it's likely that Hotspot sold copies to fever people than Super did and (at least) not to many more than Electric as well, if at all.
Firing verbal shots like a tommy gun
Re: Is there any possibility for a Number 1 album? Look at the list of releases
True. The decline started after Fundamental. Yes did sell well but the general decline of record sales was on the rise.
"John 3:16."
Re: Is there any possibility for a Number 1 album? Look at the list of releases
Well.
A bit disappointing not to top the charts in the UK because:
- As far as « the album charts » are concerned, Hotspot was (obviously) released in a quiet January week
- The whole BBC PSB friends did their promotion job
- The ITV friends too...
- They were literally everywhere in the press
- Monkey Business is one of the strongest PSB single in ages and its video too
So, that’s basically it. They’ll never top the album charts again in the UK. But does one really care ? Albums, nowadays, are mainly released to sell concert tickets.
A bit disappointing not to top the charts in the UK because:
- As far as « the album charts » are concerned, Hotspot was (obviously) released in a quiet January week
- The whole BBC PSB friends did their promotion job
- The ITV friends too...
- They were literally everywhere in the press
- Monkey Business is one of the strongest PSB single in ages and its video too
So, that’s basically it. They’ll never top the album charts again in the UK. But does one really care ? Albums, nowadays, are mainly released to sell concert tickets.
"...Many roads will cross through many lives
but somehow you survive..."
but somehow you survive..."
- Undertaker
- Posts: 8947
- Joined: Thu 30 Oct 2003, 8:16 pm
- Contact:
Re: Is there any possibility for a Number 1 album? Look at the list of releases
Well Fundamental and Yes sold more than Nightlife and Release. Which indicates the fanbase is up and down and also youre right about promotion. Fundamental and Yes had heavy promotion and coverage.
Youre also right about Parlophone not dropping PSB. Thats just bollocks.
Pity it wasnt number 1 but the chart is embarrassing these days. I couldnt even tell you what was Christmas Number 1. There used to be a big interest in the hit parade. Nobody cares a toss anymore. Especially when that ginger c*** has ten songs in the top 10. I mean wtf is that all about?
Youre also right about Parlophone not dropping PSB. Thats just bollocks.
Pity it wasnt number 1 but the chart is embarrassing these days. I couldnt even tell you what was Christmas Number 1. There used to be a big interest in the hit parade. Nobody cares a toss anymore. Especially when that ginger c*** has ten songs in the top 10. I mean wtf is that all about?
- Spittingcat
- Posts: 1077
- Joined: Thu 27 Sep 2012, 11:11 am
- Contact:
Re: Is there any possibility for a Number 1 album? Look at the list of releases
Minimal? 20% more sales perhaps. Unlikely to be more.I suspect that the promotion created minimal sales and that have not changed the chart position.
But they knew that was likely, hence the promotion deliberately doubling up as a push for the ‘hits’ tour, which needs to pull in thousands of less, er, fanatical, more casual PSB fans to fill the seats.
I think this true… this and the tour look like one last big push for #1 album and big venue world tour. Good on them!They’ll never top the album charts again in the UK.
The interviews this month seem to have made it very clear that they’ll keep writing, recording, and releasing music though… because they love doing so. Lack of big chart success won’t stop them.
Re: Is there any possibility for a Number 1 album? Look at the list of releases
I spoke about the last 10 years, so basically about Elysium, Electric, Super and now Hotspot and the according sales of these albums.Undertaker wrote: ↑Sat 01 Feb 2020, 3:05 pm Well Fundamental and Yes sold more than Nightlife and Release. Which indicates the fanbase is up and down and also youre right about promotion. Fundamental and Yes had heavy promotion and coverage.
Youre also right about Parlophone not dropping PSB. Thats just bollocks.
We all know why Yes sold more than these albums. Guess I don‘t need to explain that. I think Nightlife sold more than Fundamental, too (as it was awarded gold in the UK). Also, Nightlife sold way more than Fundamental globally.
Also, I said „dropping“, basically implying the fact that Parlopone/EMI were not exactly happy with PSBs album sales development (I‘m not speaking about week one alone here) but the total figures. Was Nightlife really the last PSB record to get awarded „gold“ status in the UK? Well, anyway. Correct me if I‘m wrong but I think no (studio) album after Fundamental sold more than 50/60k in the UK in the long run. And most were gone out of the top 75 within a couple of weeks, too.
Firing verbal shots like a tommy gun
- Undertaker
- Posts: 8947
- Joined: Thu 30 Oct 2003, 8:16 pm
- Contact:
Re: Is there any possibility for a Number 1 album? Look at the list of releases
Its fair to say that PSB's sales reduced significantly after Very. That was their last album that really sold to the masses before they became a fanbase only act.
So here are the opening week sales of their albums since Very. Which kinda proves promotion does have an effect...
23,732 Bilingual (#4, 1996)
17,038 Nightlife (#7, 1999)
18,008 Release (#7, 2002)
26,492 Fundamental (#5, 2006)
27,639 Yes (#4, 2009)
10,418 Elysium (#9, 2012)
15,715 Electric (#3, 2013)
16,953 Super (#3, 2016)
16,768 Hotspot (#3, 2020)
So here are the opening week sales of their albums since Very. Which kinda proves promotion does have an effect...
23,732 Bilingual (#4, 1996)
17,038 Nightlife (#7, 1999)
18,008 Release (#7, 2002)
26,492 Fundamental (#5, 2006)
27,639 Yes (#4, 2009)
10,418 Elysium (#9, 2012)
15,715 Electric (#3, 2013)
16,953 Super (#3, 2016)
16,768 Hotspot (#3, 2020)
Re: Is there any possibility for a Number 1 album? Look at the list of releases
Do you have the same data for earlier albums, Undertaker?
I've been around the world for a number of reasons. I've seen it all the change of seasons, and I, my lord, may I say nothing?
Re: Is there any possibility for a Number 1 album? Look at the list of releases
Thanks for the full data!Undertaker wrote: ↑Sat 01 Feb 2020, 4:09 pm Its fair to say that PSB's sales reduced significantly after Very. That was their last album that really sold to the masses before they became a fanbase only act.
So here are the opening week sales of their albums since Very. Which kinda proves promotion does have an effect...
23,732 Bilingual (#4, 1996)
17,038 Nightlife (#7, 1999)
18,008 Release (#7, 2002)
26,492 Fundamental (#5, 2006)
27,639 Yes (#4, 2009)
10,418 Elysium (#9, 2012)
15,715 Electric (#3, 2013)
16,953 Super (#3, 2016)
16,768 Hotspot (#3, 2020)
These are, however, "just" opening sales. Nightlife still sold more than Fundamental and even Yes in the long run. Which matters more than opening weeks I guess. Promotion definitely matters though, no doubt. They still haven't sold more than 50-60k of an album in the long run for "ages" and are unlikely to do so, no matter the amount of promotion.
Firing verbal shots like a tommy gun
Re: Is there any possibility for a Number 1 album? Look at the list of releases
There was an uptick with Super after Electric.
"John 3:16."
- Undertaker
- Posts: 8947
- Joined: Thu 30 Oct 2003, 8:16 pm
- Contact:
Re: Is there any possibility for a Number 1 album? Look at the list of releases
Well for starters, Nightlife has a 7 year advantage on Fundamental. Also, you're making the mistake that certificates are issued on sales. They're not. They're awarded on albums shipped. Downloads didnt start to count until mid 2000's, so the only way companies were going to sell Nightlife, was to order the physical copy.Tenlow wrote: ↑Sat 01 Feb 2020, 4:41 pmThanks for the full data!Undertaker wrote: ↑Sat 01 Feb 2020, 4:09 pm Its fair to say that PSB's sales reduced significantly after Very. That was their last album that really sold to the masses before they became a fanbase only act.
So here are the opening week sales of their albums since Very. Which kinda proves promotion does have an effect...
23,732 Bilingual (#4, 1996)
17,038 Nightlife (#7, 1999)
18,008 Release (#7, 2002)
26,492 Fundamental (#5, 2006)
27,639 Yes (#4, 2009)
10,418 Elysium (#9, 2012)
15,715 Electric (#3, 2013)
16,953 Super (#3, 2016)
16,768 Hotspot (#3, 2020)
These are, however, "just" opening sales. Nightlife still sold more than Fundamental and even Yes in the long run. Which matters more than opening weeks I guess. Promotion definitely matters though, no doubt. They still haven't sold more than 50-60k of an album in the long run for "ages" and are unlikely to do so, no matter the amount of promotion.
Nightlife's chart run in the UK was ...
United Kingdom: 7--28-60-103-177-OUT
So we can assume by those figures, Fundamental probably sold as many units in its first week than Nightlife did in its first 5 weeks.
They might be first week sales but the first week is usually a pretty good indicator of how the album sold overall. No way are casual fans buying thousands of PSB cds months and years after release. So imo, first week sales are a pretty good indicator whether promotion works and its quite clear that promotion does work, merely looking at the opening figures from Nightlife to Hotspot. There are too many differences in the figures to suggest otherwise.
I cant even remember any promotion for Elysium.
- Undertaker
- Posts: 8947
- Joined: Thu 30 Oct 2003, 8:16 pm
- Contact:
Re: Is there any possibility for a Number 1 album? Look at the list of releases
Afraid not mate, sorry. Hopefully they'll emerge though.
- y3potential
- Posts: 1386
- Joined: Wed 20 Jul 2011, 8:21 pm
- Been thanked: 3 times
- Contact:
Re: Is there any possibility for a Number 1 album? Look at the list of releases
Undertaker wrote: ↑Sat 01 Feb 2020, 3:05 pm Well Fundamental and Yes sold more than Nightlife and Release. Which indicates the fanbase is up and down and also youre right about promotion. Fundamental and Yes had heavy promotion and coverage.
Youre also right about Parlophone not dropping PSB. Thats just bollocks.
Pity it wasnt number 1 but the chart is embarrassing these days. I couldnt even tell you what was Christmas Number 1. There used to be a big interest in the hit parade. Nobody cares a toss anymore. Especially when that ginger c*** has ten songs in the top 10. I mean wtf is that all about?
I thought I was the only person that still said 'hit parade' these days (channelling my inner Smashie and Nicey, mate). Thank you Undertaker.
There is beauty in ugliness and ugliness in beauty.
Re: Is there any possibility for a Number 1 album? Look at the list of releases
Yes, had sold 70,210 copies in the U.K by October 2010.