I was shocked to learn that

[raggatwin]

If Adam Smith were to come back from the deab he wouldnt recognise capitalism as he theorised it vis a vis competition, the idea of open and competetive markets - perfect competition - is a joke in the present climate all you have is oligarchies operating accross different markets, price points, target markets and all the rest of it. Whereas businesses at one time wanted to be the best in their market, now they want to be the biggest, they are turning themselves in faceless organiations, i have a problem with my mobile phone, i call a call centre in India, i speak to ten different people and the problem would still not be resolved, ditto anything else you buy. neverending growth leaves both the worker and the consumer shafted.....

Im tired, going to bed Zzzzzzzzzzzz...........

[gregf]

I would love to join in but confused by the various definition of pensions.
Here a "pension" means the government old age benefit, similar to the dole.

Here also workers pay into a system called superannuation. It is mandatory that
9% of your pay goes to "super" and you can top this up at a generous tax break.
Most people retire on super at a much higher rate then "the pension". Super is
usually run by a third party, like a life insurance company and is quarantined from
tampering by the employer.

I don't understand why workers in Europe are so reliant on government pensions ?

[glennjridge]

old age benefit? I think in the US thats "social security".a check you get each month when you turn 65.

a "pension" here at least in the US is for some workers who due to union agreements with a company pay into a retirement fund and then when you retire, elegible age I believe being 55, you receive a percentage of what you made while working, for the rest of your life.

I can see how it irks some in theory.I expect in the future,pensions will be done away with.

[Patrick Bateman]

I expect in the future,pensions will be done away with.

Yes, it'll be just like Logan's Run.

[glennjridge]

yeah thats an idea,not that our politically correct world would allow that though. besides I think the age in that movie was like 30. I'd have been dead 5 years ago by now.

[Radiophonic]

I've paid superannuation for 25 years. I don't think I'll be entitled for a state pension when I retire in 2020 - or 2026 whenever it is.

[glennjridge]

they're just going to have to print more money or rob a bank,cause if you contributed,its an agreement they agreed to. its a binding contract.
like I said before, they can feel free to stop the pension system for new empoyees, but they have an agreement with you.they have to honor it. its not some private company.its going to be anarchy if a governmental/state/county/federal system of all places steals its employees money.

in america they'd probably just start shooting the officials.

[gregf]

Glenn who is holding the money for your scheme ? Is it the company?
What happens if the company goes broke ?

Here the money is paid into an account run by a third party, usually like a
life insurance company and it is all guaranteed.

So for the Brits and Europeans, if the government can cut these "pensions",
why would you not want a private super scheme ?

[glennjridge]

Us NY state county employes, pay into the system via the "New York State Employees Retirement System".
its pretty much like what you have there. its guaranteed. which is why I dont know what radiophonics dealing with. it might be different over there, but it should be guanteed and safe.

[gregf]

Ahh, you should be fine then.

Radiophonic sounds similar to me. We contribute to a fund held away from the
the employer. The money is safe from the company going bankrupt, or the government
getting into fiscal trouble and cutting the benefit. We see how much is accumulating
and can direct how it is invested, cash, shares or growth funds if you're daring.

Most people retire very comfortably without needing or qualifying for a government pension.
So I am trying to suggest to the Brits and Europeans this is a better plan.

[Radiophonic]

To just clarify things, and as I understand it, because I expect my superann to be a satisfactory amount when I retire in 2020 or 2026 the state pension entitlement would be be less, if anything. State pensions (funded by National Insurence contributions - not a handout like the dole) tend to be a top up for what financial arrangements you already have. So if you have no money when you reach 60 or 66 you will get the full benefit amount and the more you have (private pension or savings) you'll be entitled to less state pension.

So that's why I think I may have very litle state pension, even though I pay my contributions regularly.

But I must emphasise I know very little about it at the moment so I may well be wrong.