A LIFE IN POP IS...

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JSDOUVRES · #61 Post by **JSDOUVRES** » Thu 02 Nov 2006, 12:18 pm

Recieved it this morning and have just watched it, Brilliant I must say and that first performance of West end girls is fantastic and has to be my favourite live performance from them. Neil looks so different and it is just so un-psb!!!!
Great with French subtitles to play to my friends and girlfriend!

Eldritch · #62 Post by **Eldritch** » Thu 02 Nov 2006, 1:01 pm

dVTB wrote: There's nothing generous about saying that the reviews were mixed. They actually were. Some media praised it, others slagged it off. You can read for yourself over here, thanks to Geowayne: http://www.geowayne.com/closercastalbum.htm

Well, quoting the reviews from Wayne's site (which are already a selection of the kinder things said about the musical) is not very useful, since most of the good reviews there are either quotes from PSB's showbiz buddies or back-handed compliments ("an essence of camp", says Observer; only the review from Sunday Times is sincerely positive). Most of the things the critics said about CTH were downright horrible, which means that it got mainly bad reviews. Mixed reviews would reply more of a 50-50 % division, not a 75-25 % win for the bitchy reviews.

dgraysn · #63 Post by **dgraysn** » Thu 02 Nov 2006, 1:35 pm

in the end i dont give a shit about the reviews. i saw CTH 3 times, all sold out shows with engaged, happy audiences that enjoyed it. i fit had been marketed properly it could have done better. the second poster series (B&W) was more effective in conveying the show.
sadly it came too late.

alig · #64 Post by **alig** » Thu 02 Nov 2006, 3:42 pm

Eldritch wrote:
dVTB wrote: There's nothing generous about saying that the reviews were mixed. They actually were. Some media praised it, others slagged it off. You can read for yourself over here, thanks to Geowayne: http://www.geowayne.com/closercastalbum.htm
Well, quoting the reviews from Wayne's site (which are already a selection of the kinder things said about the musical) is not very useful, since most of the good reviews there are either quotes from PSB's showbiz buddies or back-handed compliments ("an essence of camp", says Observer; only the review from Sunday Times is sincerely positive). Most of the things the critics said about CTH were downright horrible, which means that it got mainly bad reviews. Mixed reviews would reply more of a 50-50 % division, not a 75-25 % win for the bitchy reviews.

and keep in mind what neil said about theatre people being very protective. they hate the idea of outsiders gatecrashing their genre. therefore they had it in for the boys and refused to give them good reviews. i saw the musical and i loved it. critics are not everything you know. they build you up only to tear you down in the end.

dVTB · #65 Post by **dVTB** » Thu 02 Nov 2006, 3:58 pm

dgraysn wrote:in the end i dont give a shit about the reviews. i saw CTH 3 times, all sold out shows with engaged, happy audiences that enjoyed it.

In the end, that's all that counts. But some people on this forum turn negativism into a sport. They focus on less positive aspects only, to ridiculize PSB and both their commercial and artistic achievements.

patrick · #66 Post by **patrick** » Thu 02 Nov 2006, 5:15 pm

dVTB wrote:So let me get this right: you travelled all the way from America to London to see a musical you don't like?

Yep. Although if you use your other brain cell for a moment you'd understand that there was no way to know whether or not I would like it until after I saw it. I made the trip because I love the PSB and it was a unique opportunity.

What did you expect in the first place?

A decent musical. Closer to Heaven was just abysmal. The majority of reviews and reaction reflect that.

Some media praised it, others slagged it off.

Most slagged it off, and quite rightly.

You can read for yourself over here, thanks to Geowayne

I'm not sure a site dedicated to brownnosing is the best place to look for objectivity...

patrick · #67 Post by **patrick** » Thu 02 Nov 2006, 5:17 pm

dVTB wrote:But some people on this forum turn negativism into a sport. They focus on less positive aspects only, to ridiculize PSB and both their commercial and artistic achievements.

Who are these people? There are simply mindless fans and realists.

dVTB · #68 Post by **dVTB** » Thu 02 Nov 2006, 5:54 pm

patrick wrote:Yep. Although if you use your other brain cell for a moment you'd understand that there was no way to know whether or not I would like it until after I saw it. I made the trip because I love the PSB and it was a unique opportunity.

So you do actually love the Pet Shop Boys? Why didn't you check out all the negative reviews before you travelled to London? And why did you remove my question 'did you ask your money back' when you replied?

patrick wrote: I'm not sure a site dedicated to brownnosing is the best place to look for objectivity...

The mentioned page features both positive and negative reviews.

patrick · #69 Post by **patrick** » Thu 02 Nov 2006, 6:07 pm

dVTB wrote:So you do actually love the Pet Shop Boys?

Why else would I be here? You have this bizarre mentality that fans must completely lack critical faculties of any kind or - at a bare minimum - think exactly the way you do. PSB are my favorite group but they've churned out their fair share of rubbish in their time.

Why didn't you check out all the negative reviews before you travelled to London?

Transatlantic travel is hardly done on a whim. By the time negative reviews came out it would have been too late to do anything (I saw the second performance). This is common sense and it's moronic that you even have to ask.

At any rate I'm not one to allow reviews to influence me. As it happens the negative reviews were pretty much spot on because Closer to Heaven was an amateur disaster in terms of theater. What's more PSB seem to recognize this.

And why did you remove my question 'did you ask your money back' when you replied?

Because it was an idiotic question. Do you ask for your money back when you don't enjoy a film?

The mentioned page features both positive and negative reviews.

...in a misrepresentative manner that suggests a balanced response.

dVTB · #70 Post by **dVTB** » Thu 02 Nov 2006, 6:22 pm

patrick wrote:
dVTB wrote:So you do actually love the Pet Shop Boys?
Why else would I be here? You have this bizarre mentality that fans must completely lack critical faculties of any kind or - at a bare minimum - think exactly the way you do. PSB are my favorite group but they've churned out their fair share of rubbish in their time.

I never said that PSB never did anything poor. What's the point of being in a discussion forum if my goal would be to turn people into clones of me? I am here to discuss.

I notice that some forum users here (and even more on the intellectual forum) are way more negative than positive about Pet Shop Boys. And not even that: they emphasize the negative aspects. If you (you is meant general here) think PSB are a couple of 80s has-beens who only did good things in the 80s, then why do you still participate in discussions about them, I wonder...

Eldritch · #71 Post by **Eldritch** » Thu 02 Nov 2006, 6:24 pm

patrick wrote:
dVTB wrote:
The mentioned page features both positive and negative reviews.
...in a misrepresentative manner that suggests a balanced response.

Exactly. Even on the site the positive "reviews" (mostly from PSB's friends) are under the headline: "Some of the better reviews and nicer things people said about Closer to Heaven". "Better" and "nicer", not "good". CTH got slaughtered in the press and a couple of positive reviews won't change the fact any more than a couple of negative reviews will make it impossible to say that the new Bob Dylan album got good reviews.

For the record: I haven't seen the musical, but the album is quite ghastly. Some good songs destroyed by musical-style singing but surrounded by cringeworthy dross. And I'm a huge PSB fan: I love both Fundamental and Release plus most of the b-sides from each era.

patrick · #72 Post by **patrick** » Thu 02 Nov 2006, 6:31 pm

dVTB wrote:I notice that some forum users here (and even more on the intellectual forum) are way more negative than positive about Pet Shop Boys.

I think you're falling victim to confirmation bias.

dVTB · #73 Post by **dVTB** » Thu 02 Nov 2006, 6:34 pm

patrick wrote:
dVTB wrote:I notice that some forum users here (and even more on the intellectual forum) are way more negative than positive about Pet Shop Boys.
I think you're falling victim to confirmation bias.

Would you mind to explain this? Why? Because I'm rather positive about PSB? It's not as if I praise them into heaven. But when (for instance) I dislike a song such as I don't know what you want but I can't give it any more, I don't overdo my criticism by writing: "it's the worst thing humain beings ever bothered to record" or so...

patrick · #74 Post by **patrick** » Thu 02 Nov 2006, 6:35 pm

Eldritch wrote:For the record: I haven't seen the musical, but the album is quite ghastly. Some good songs destroyed by musical-style singing but surrounded by cringeworthy dross.

One of the problems with CTH is that it's so obvious. I imagine you could basically write it yourself without having seen it (even if you hadn't heard the soundtrack). Of course there's an ageing diva. Of course there's an exploitative promoter. Of course the lead comes out. Of course there's a drug overdose.

It's all just so hackneyed and cliched and trite. Some of the songs are good (some) but the production itself was just abominably poor. The floating bed was cool, though.

patrick · #75 Post by **patrick** » Thu 02 Nov 2006, 6:40 pm

dVTB wrote:
patrick wrote:I think you're falling victim to confirmation bias.
Would you mind to explain this?

You zero in on negative comments and then spin them as the sum of a given poster's contribution, completely disregarding anything positive they've said in the past. The questions you put to me about my CTH experience demonstrate that you've already got a "story" worked out in your head and merely seek to confirm it ... rather than actually deal with the reality of nuanced and complex fandoms.

PSB are my favorite group. I'm far from an '80s imperial phase fan (in fact I rarely listen to anything made before 1990). I think some of their Release era stuff is among their best songwriting. I like that they push in new directions and take risks.

But at the same time I can look at what they do from a broader perspective and recognize that some of it is just crap. CTH is one of their failures. Some of the songs are nice but as a piece of musical theater it's rubbish. The widespread negative reviews support this.