About the new album

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jamie1978
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#61 Post by jamie1978 » Fri 01 Jul 2005, 9:39 am

Zeus On The Loose wrote:I totally agree. It doesn't matter what the writer intended to write about, it's what people think it's about that matters. Anyway, for a record that according to Neil and Chris started as a humorous, camp, Bobby O style tune, you lot have been reading too much on it.

Next stop, Try It (I'm In Love With A Married Man)...an analysis of adultery and the demise of family values.
Please carefully read the following dictionary definition;

HUMILITY

hu·mil·i·ty ( P ) Pronunciation Key (hy-ml-t)
n.
The quality or condition of being humble.

[Middle English humilite, from Old French, from Late Latin humilits, from humilis, humble. See humble.]

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#62 Post by Ghost within this house » Fri 01 Jul 2005, 10:03 am

But Jamie, the Latin word humilis is in turn derived from the word 'humus' meaning earth or ground. As such, to be 'humilis' simply means to be 'down to earth'... as such, one could argue that Zeus is NOT the person who needs to be taught the meaning of the word..
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jamie1978
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#63 Post by jamie1978 » Fri 01 Jul 2005, 10:25 am

Ghost within this house wrote:But Jamie, the Latin word humilis is in turn derived from the word 'humus' meaning earth or ground. As such, to be 'humilis' simply means to be 'down to earth'... as such, one could argue that Zeus is NOT the person who needs to be taught the meaning of the word..
To be honest, I'm not really sure what it is you're talking about ;)

The point I was making, is that everyone is entitled to their opinion, and that no-one is entitled to believe their opinion is the 'right' one.

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Zeus On The Loose
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#64 Post by Zeus On The Loose » Fri 01 Jul 2005, 10:28 am

jamie1978 wrote:
Ghost within this house wrote:But Jamie, the Latin word humilis is in turn derived from the word 'humus' meaning earth or ground. As such, to be 'humilis' simply means to be 'down to earth'... as such, one could argue that Zeus is NOT the person who needs to be taught the meaning of the word..
To be honest, I'm not really sure what it is you're talking about ;)

The point I was making, is that everyone is entitled to their opinion, and that no-one is entitled to believe their opinion is the 'right' one.
Everyone should believe their opinion is the right one. What's the point of having an opinion if you doubt that it is?
Does cameos only.

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jamie1978
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#65 Post by jamie1978 » Fri 01 Jul 2005, 10:51 am

Zeus On The Loose wrote:
jamie1978 wrote:
Ghost within this house wrote:But Jamie, the Latin word humilis is in turn derived from the word 'humus' meaning earth or ground. As such, to be 'humilis' simply means to be 'down to earth'... as such, one could argue that Zeus is NOT the person who needs to be taught the meaning of the word..
To be honest, I'm not really sure what it is you're talking about ;)

The point I was making, is that everyone is entitled to their opinion, and that no-one is entitled to believe their opinion is the 'right' one.
Everyone should believe their opinion is the right one. What's the point of having an opinion if you doubt that it is?
Whilst an opinion may suit a person, and reflect their taste - there is clearly no such thing as a 'right' or 'wrong' opinion, because it infers that other opinions are in some way less valid.

Clearly the very definition of an 'opinion' defies the logic of right or wrong. Opinions are all about belief, they are not solid facts. 'The Pet Shop Boys are a duo' is a fact. 'The Pet Shop Boys are good' is an opinion - and just that. It cant be right or wrong, not in reality, it can only be a belief.

Hmmm... my productivity at work is at a new low. Never mind ;)

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#66 Post by Eldritch » Fri 01 Jul 2005, 10:54 am

I think that instead of the "right opinion", which sounds too fixed and definite, we should refer to "the most valid opinion of those currently available but still open to change if the facts or what we know of them should change".
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Zeus On The Loose
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#67 Post by Zeus On The Loose » Fri 01 Jul 2005, 10:56 am

I disagree. There can only be one 'right' and one 'wrong' and when two opinions are contradicting, one of them is always the correct one.

I do however loosely agree with Eldritch's take on it. I'm sorry, but there are people whose opinion I value more than the opinion of others. When I say 'I Should Be So Lucky is fantastic', no matter how much e.g Avalon may disagree, I tend to value my opinion more than his.
Does cameos only.

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#68 Post by jamie1978 » Fri 01 Jul 2005, 11:09 am

Zeus On The Loose wrote:I disagree. There can only be one 'right' and one 'wrong' and when two opinions are contradicting, one of them is always the correct one.

I do however loosely agree with Eldritch's take on it. I'm sorry, but there are people whose opinion I value more than the opinion of others. When I say 'I Should Be So Lucky is fantastic', no matter how much e.g Avalon may disagree, I tend to value my opinion more than his.
When two facts are contradicting, one is always the correct one.

eg;
Neil Tennant is 50 years old - right
Neil Tennant is 45 years old - wrong

When two opinions are contradicting, you just have a difference of opinion.

eg;
Neil Tennant is good looking
Neil Tennant is a minger

What you dont have is clear cut right or wrong. Even though my thoughts sway toward the latter conclusion!

I agree with you on the second part though.

Anyway, about this new album......

BTW Zeus which part of greece do you live in? My friends have just flown out to Mykanos this morning (if thats how you spell it).

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#69 Post by Zeus On The Loose » Fri 01 Jul 2005, 11:49 am

True, however, not everyone's opinion is as valid. It depends on how intelligent someone is and how evolved is their aesthetic. Also, if they can discern between personal likes and dislikes and whether something is genuinely good. For example, I totally hate U2's music but there's not denying they are fantastic at what they do. I don't believe a lot of people would be able to say something like that. They'd either say they're fab or crap.

I'm in Athens.
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#70 Post by Provider » Fri 01 Jul 2005, 12:26 pm

Jamie>>

While I admire your pluralistic view on opinions, I must disagree with your total relativism in this statement: "there is clearly no such thing as a 'right' or 'wrong' opinion, because it infers that other opinions are in some way less valid"

So, if it's my opinion that homosexuals ought to be flogged in public, is it still as valid as it's opposit?

Zeus>>

"It depends on how intelligent someone is and how evolved is their aesthetic. Also, if they can discern between personal likes and dislikes and whether something is genuinely good"

So if people are ugly or are to stupid to maintain anything else than a McJob, actually their opinion is not valid?

And who judges what is genuinely good? How do you measure that?

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#71 Post by tweety » Fri 01 Jul 2005, 12:36 pm

Provider wrote:So if people are ugly or are to stupid to maintain anything else than a McJob, actually their opinion is not valid?
I used to know someone like that. Then I broke up with him.

Keep up the good coversation, pals. It's always a pleasure to watch smart, intelligent people fighting about apples and oranges.
"At one time singers had to use musicians to accompany them. Since synthesizers came along, singers can now play with themselves"

http://petshopboys.proboards58.com

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Zeus On The Loose
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#72 Post by Zeus On The Loose » Fri 01 Jul 2005, 12:37 pm

Re: Provider

There's no measure. Some things just are.
Does cameos only.

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#73 Post by Provider » Fri 01 Jul 2005, 12:38 pm

Zeus On The Loose wrote:There's no measure. Some things just are.
And of course they just happen to be the things YOU think are good? :wink:

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#74 Post by jamie1978 » Fri 01 Jul 2005, 12:40 pm

Provider wrote:Jamie>>

While I admire your pluralistic view on opinions, I must disagree with your total relativism in this statement: "there is clearly no such thing as a 'right' or 'wrong' opinion, because it infers that other opinions are in some way less valid"

So, if it's my opinion that homosexuals ought to be flogged in public, is it still as valid as it's opposit?

Zeus>>

"It depends on how intelligent someone is and how evolved is their aesthetic. Also, if they can discern between personal likes and dislikes and whether something is genuinely good"

So if people are ugly or are to stupid to maintain anything else than a McJob, actually their opinion is not valid?

And who judges what is genuinely good? How do you measure that?
Well, there is no denying that in the past, in many societies, the view that homosexuals should be flogged was widespread and 'validated' by the church, government, tyranny of the majority etc.

This viewpoint is no longer socially acceptable, in some societies at least, but its still just an opinion, no more or less valid than any other. Social acceptance is different but I suppose adds a validation of sorts.

Hmm, this isnt really 'on-topic' anymore is it.

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#75 Post by Eldritch » Fri 01 Jul 2005, 12:43 pm

Zeus On The Loose wrote:For example, I totally hate U2's music but there's not denying they are fantastic at what they do.
Can you then put into words why U2 are fantastic at what they do and Coldplay are apparently not, since both are dealing in the same kind of bombastic rock and the latter are currently overtaking the former as the official stadion rock champions?
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