Was it Roger Scruton PSB sued?..

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Acelera

#46 Post by Acelera » Tue 19 Jul 2005, 6:26 pm

jamie1978 wrote:
Acelera wrote:
jamie1978 wrote:what is this
Please correct me if I am wrong, but didnt 'programming' in the classic sense basically die out with the Fairlight?
Operating a sequencer, editing a sampled waveform or changing a few parameters on a synth all constitute forms of musical programming.
This hasn't changed - it's the tools of the trade that are different as dedicated sequencers have mostly fallen out of favour - except in hiphop - for personal computers running a software one. Likewise, many producers incorporate virtual plugins to the process as well, let it be effects processors, instruments or both. So, in essence, where sound design starts and sequencing finishes is a bit blurred now as it can all take place within the same environment.

What used to be done on page 'R' on the Fairlight now gets done in Logic in PSB's case. Even so, you could argue that the Fairlight was the first 'software sequencer' as it was built on a general purpose computer platform - albeit a terribly expensive one. :)
ah, ok, thanks for the explination

I have always considered 'programming' more complex than just tweaking a few bits on a sythesiser (ie attack, decay etc) - I understood that the fairlight basically incorporated a form of programming language which was quite difficult to master

This is how I personally have considered 'programming' - ie, literally coding in a computer language specific to a sythesiser/sampler etc. I imagine that this is less of a requirement than it used to be?
Ah, you're referring to the MCL language in the Fairlight. Not even Andy Richards or JJ Jeczalik used that. It was all page R sequencing instead. The synthesis/sampling functions on the Fairlight didn't require MCL either as they had their own dedicated 'pages' on the CMI menu too.

The big difficulty with the Fairlight lay in the fact that computer technology associated to music was very thin in the ground back then. Coupled to that, a fully expanded CMI III set you back 70,000 Sterling as well. So you had a very exclusive synth/sampler/sequencer that not many people could afford and even fewer people had access to. People like JJ, Rob Fisher (he of Climie Fisher) and so on made a pile because they were amongst the lucky few. The way PSB worked back then is that they'd do the demo, then hire in the 'Fairlight guy' who'd come in with his wundermachine and provide all the ear candy - the aforementioned Andy Richards being one of the gang.

The only people in popular modern music that actually code in the traditional sense are folk like Brian Transeau (BT) as he's heavily into his ultra complicated Kyma Capybara music computational device / instrument. Other music coders dabble in Max/MSP which is a music programming environment available for both Windows and Mac. Again, pretty much a niche thing.

So yes, to put it simply, programming in musical terms is down to sound design (whether audio editors, synths, samplers) and sequencing (audio & midi) these days.

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jamie1978
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#47 Post by jamie1978 » Wed 20 Jul 2005, 11:20 am

Thanks for that reply, by the way, it was interesting to read. Being outside of my area of expertise, I have nothing else to add!

Acelera

#48 Post by Acelera » Wed 20 Jul 2005, 12:49 pm

jamie1978 wrote:Thanks for that reply, by the way, it was interesting to read. Being outside of my area of expertise, I have nothing else to add!
You're very welcome. It's nice to be able to contribute something insightful once in a (long) while.


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Sandy Shaw
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#50 Post by Sandy Shaw » Mon 13 Jan 2020, 5:46 pm

glennjridge wrote:
Sat 16 Jul 2005, 3:55 am
george michael was sued by barry manilow. he felt last christmas was a rip-off of cant smile without you. he lost.

one thing though regarding the PSB.when I read the remastered booklets I do see lots of hints that the PSB dont always play on their own songs. an example being the guy who did "before" pretty much did the track the way I read.
Barry didn't write I can't smile without you.

'' "Can't Smile Without You" is a song written by Christian Arnold, David Martin, and Geoff Morrow, and recorded by various artists including Barry Manilow and the Carpenters. The version recorded by Manilow in 1977 and released in 1978 is the most well-known, though it was not the first to be recorded or released.[1] The first version of the song was by David Martin, released on July 25, 1975.''

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Can%27t_Smile_Without_You


''On behalf of the songwriters, publishing company Dick James Music sued George Michael for plagiarism in the mid-1980s claiming that the 1984 Wham! single, "Last Christmas", lifted its melody from "Can't Smile Without You". The case was settled out of court.''
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joe stalin
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Re: Was it Roger Scruton PSB sued?..

#51 Post by joe stalin » Mon 13 Jan 2020, 6:36 pm

Surely another master of the fair light was Blue Weaver

Still think it couldn’t happen here sounds better his way via the fairlight vs the orchestra.

IMHO obviously

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Re: Was it Roger Scruton PSB sued?..

#52 Post by TallThinMan » Mon 13 Jan 2020, 7:44 pm

joe stalin wrote:
Mon 13 Jan 2020, 6:36 pm
Still think it couldn’t happen here sounds better his way via the fairlight vs the orchestra.

IMHO obviously
Worth a re-link I think: https://youtu.be/WQ0XRksZ4N8

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Re: Was it Roger Scruton PSB sued?..

#53 Post by Tom Angel » Mon 13 Jan 2020, 7:46 pm

Roger Scrutton was a man who spoke his mind - a rare thing these days in a world of over sensitiveness wokeness and thin skinned people looking to be offended. People who no-platform anyone who challenges their world view.

I didn't agree with him on everything, but he will be very much missed. RIP.
in suits or sequins/or twin sets and pearls

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rollo
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#54 Post by rollo » Tue 14 Jan 2020, 2:24 am

rollo wrote:
Fri 15 Jul 2005, 3:33 pm
Agreed, on every point.

I read the fox hunting book once... a very entertaining read as I recall.
Strange to see my own posts on the first page of this thread. I have literally no memory of (a) the conversation, or (b) reading the book. I assume it was this one, and that I probably read it around the time it was first published.

Old age cometh. :wall:
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http://musicforstowaways.wordpress.com/

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Re: Was it Roger Scruton PSB sued?..

#55 Post by leesmapman » Tue 14 Jan 2020, 3:47 pm

What does he mean with "which owes its trade mark to subsequent sound engineering, designed precisely to make it unrepeatable."? That PSB have a unique sound?

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Sandy Shaw
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Re: Was it Roger Scruton PSB sued?..

#56 Post by Sandy Shaw » Thu 23 Jan 2020, 1:42 am

leesmapman wrote:
Tue 14 Jan 2020, 3:47 pm
What does he mean with "which owes its trade mark to subsequent sound engineering, designed precisely to make it unrepeatable."? That PSB have a unique sound?
I reckon he meant that the sounds couldn't be recreated for 'live' work. That's a whole debate in itself!
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