A question about "Shameless"

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Had "Shameless" like the opening track from "Very" done it a better album?

Yes, it fits perfectly like the first track before the original tracklist from "Very"
5
26%
It's only better because it had included a new track and/or "Shameless" is a good track
4
21%
I don't think "Shameless" had done "Very" a better album
10
53%
 
Total votes: 19

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A question about "Shameless"

#1 Post by nickname » Sun 28 Dec 2014, 4:47 pm

This song was "single material", it's a clear anthemic song from PSB. In my opinion, it would have been a clear "opening track". Being "Can you forgive her?" a "mid-tempo" song, yes it's banging but it's not a really fast song, the second track of the album.

"Shameless" describes perfectly the vein of the album and the intro is also a really good one like and intro of the whole thing.

Some people think the inclusion of "Go West" at the end could have been a bit redundant with "Shameless" like the opening track but I don't think so (it was more redundant to include it like B-side of "Go West"). You know, it's like "Sgt Peppers..." with an opening and an ending in a same way but this time with different songs and the Chris Lowe with his "outro" track. A conceptual thing.

I even think it was "single material" as I said before but this is a different thing.

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Re: A question about "Shameless"

#2 Post by minimal » Sun 28 Dec 2014, 11:47 pm

Shameless is a great song without any doubt but I can't see it being the opening track of Very. That would have made the album start with a rushed climax. What is more, Shameless has a different sound and would have made Very sound incoherent. PSB pretty much did everything right with the orange album. Almost every song could have been a single. If at all, I would have left out One And One Make Five as it is the weakest song imho. The Theatre and Dreaming should and could have been singles, though. But then again this probably wouldn't have changed a thing. Therefore, I don't really see the point discussing such matters. Shameless does not fit the album and that's why it's become a great and PSB-defining b-side.

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Re: A question about "Shameless"

#3 Post by One of the crowd » Mon 29 Dec 2014, 12:16 am

It will always be a fabulous b side but never single material

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Re: A question about "Shameless"

#4 Post by Danimal » Mon 29 Dec 2014, 3:37 am

According to back issues of Literally, Shameless was written and recorded for Very. When the Boys were selecting the final tracklisting they decided the joke wore thin taken together with Yesterday when I was mad, so they decided to release it as a b-side instead. They later regretted not saving it for a single as the the quality of the track was quite high and later considered releasing it as the single for Alternative, but went off that idea as the track's A-Side Go West had sold so many copies.

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Re: A question about "Shameless"

#5 Post by jasonjohn » Mon 29 Dec 2014, 10:52 am

Very is quite a grown-up album despite the campness of it.

Glad they left Shameless off, somehow.

Yes, CYFGH is mid-tempo, but the Shameless chorus isn't exactly faster than Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious.

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Re: A question about "Shameless"

#6 Post by Eldritch » Mon 29 Dec 2014, 5:22 pm

Can You Forgive Her? is a perfect opening track, but in my opinion Shameless should have replaced the generic One In A Million on the album. Both are very hi-NRG tracks, so it wouldn't tonally change the album, but since it's a much better song, it would improve Very. I would also have replaced One And One Makes Five -- the other weak-ish track -- with Too Many People. Then Very would have been a perfect album.
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Re: A question about "Shameless"

#7 Post by miserabalism » Mon 29 Dec 2014, 5:40 pm

Eldritch wrote:Can You Forgive Her? is a perfect opening track, but in my opinion Shameless should have replaced the generic One In A Million on the album. Both are very hi-NRG tracks, so it wouldn't tonally change the album, but since it's a much better song, it would improve Very. I would also have replaced One And One Makes Five -- the other weak-ish track -- with Too Many People. Then Very would have been a perfect album.
Absolutely agree with this - Shameless is a much stronger track than One in a million.

Actually, I would go as far as saying that Shameless is better than Go West. Is that controversial?

I also agree that Too many people is better than One and one makes five.

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Re: A question about "Shameless"

#8 Post by Tom Angel » Mon 29 Dec 2014, 5:43 pm

I agree that Can You Forgive Her? is a perfect opening track, but I really like both One In A Million and one and one make five. The song I would replace it with is Yesterday, when i was mad..
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Re: A question about "Shameless"

#9 Post by Palpatine » Mon 29 Dec 2014, 7:25 pm

Eldritch wrote:Can You Forgive Her? is a perfect opening track, but in my opinion Shameless should have replaced the generic One In A Million on the album. Both are very hi-NRG tracks, so it wouldn't tonally change the album, but since it's a much better song, it would improve Very. I would also have replaced One And One Makes Five -- the other weak-ish track -- with Too Many People. Then Very would have been a perfect album.
I completely agree with Eldritch. One in a million is nice but Shameless is much better in IMHO. Too many people is superior to One and one make five IMHO.

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Re: A question about "Shameless"

#10 Post by jasonjohn » Mon 29 Dec 2014, 10:44 pm

One In A Million is a better album track because it is something most people can relate to.

Shameless would be fine on an album intending to be more frivolous, but that's not what Very is about.

Go West is a great ending, but putting Shameless on there would cheapen the experience of getting there.

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Re: A question about "Shameless"

#11 Post by MikeyC » Tue 30 Dec 2014, 5:03 am

Shameless and Too Many People are both amazing tracks... amazing B-sides from that era and it is what it is. I think they work perfectly as B-sides.

And nothing but Go West could ever end 'Very', it was the perfect finale. The AIDS crisis was still at its height and this song was such an emotional comfort and small window of a brighter world for so many... the sound of the waves and birds, the chorus of the men... the soaring melody and lyrics. Perfection.

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Re: A question about "Shameless"

#12 Post by Eldritch » Tue 30 Dec 2014, 6:53 am

jasonjohn wrote:One In A Million is a better album track because it is something most people can relate to.

Shameless would be fine on an album intending to be more frivolous, but that's not what Very is about.

Go West is a great ending, but putting Shameless on there would cheapen the experience of getting there.
But I find One In A Million so generic and vacuous that I for one can't relate to it. Plus I think that Very is a very frivilous album: I Wouldn't Normally... and Yesterday... are among the most humorous and joyful tracks thy have ever done.

You're right about the sequencing though. Shameless and Go West could thematically contradict each other in an unwelcome way.
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Re: A question about "Shameless"

#13 Post by JJ Naas » Tue 30 Dec 2014, 10:51 am

Quoting the Very -summary on Wayne's site: "Neil noted that he wrote many of the album's lyrics while being in the full flush of love." I agree One and One is weak track, but since "Neil in love" is the carrying theme of the album, I wouldn't remove any of the songs that deal with love and relationships. Yesterday.. fits the theme the least, so that's why that's the track I'd replace. But at the end of the day, I really wouldn't change a thing.

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Re: A question about "Shameless"

#14 Post by jasonjohn » Tue 30 Dec 2014, 11:16 am

Eldritch wrote:But I find One In A Million so generic and vacuous that I for one can't relate to it. Plus I think that Very is a very frivilous album: I Wouldn't Normally... and Yesterday... are among the most humorous and joyful tracks thy have ever done.
I can see what you mean about Million being generic. But I think they said at one time that they were aiming for a bit of Stock Aitken Waterman with some of these tracks. In that sense, it's wonderfully generic :) But yes maybe hard to stomach for some! I can actually imagine Kylie Minogue singing this one.

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Re: A question about "Shameless"

#15 Post by Andie » Wed 31 Dec 2014, 9:12 am

MikeyC wrote:
And nothing but Go West could ever end 'Very', it was the perfect finale. The AIDS crisis was still at its height and this song was such an emotional comfort and small window of a brighter world for so many... the sound of the waves and birds, the chorus of the men... the soaring melody and lyrics. Perfection.
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