No Numb LIVE, no Numb SINGLE?

Message

jamie1978 · #76 Post by **jamie1978** » Tue 20 Jun 2006, 4:41 pm

Burj wrote:
jamie1978 wrote:I'd bet a considerable amount of money that Numb is not the third single, and that there won't even BE a third single if Fundamental doesnt climb up the album chart when Minimal is released.
Best hop over to William Hill ASAP then.

FWIW, I don't really care if Numb is a single or not, but my beef was someone claiming PSB had NO INTENTION of considering it as single material when it's clear at some point they have done, and that it's not single material, when of course they approached Diane Warren to give them a hit in the first place.

Right, but you don't hava problem with a bunch of people speculating about why Numb isnt being played live as its going to be the third single?

profile790 · #77 Post by **profile790** » Tue 20 Jun 2006, 4:48 pm

jamie1978 wrote:Disagreeing with the assertion that the Pet Shop Boys are a fan-based act with little appeal in the pop mainstream makes you look very silly indeed.

The Pet Shop Boys actually stated before Release was, well, released, that it would have 4 singles. In the end, two were released. So it doenst really matter what Neil said about Bright Young Things because EMI decide how many singles to release, not the PSB's.

You're just clutching on to straws like most other deluded fans, you appear irrational and react badly to some simple home truths.

I'm a Pet Shop Boys fan, I love their work, but I'm also a realist.

It's either funny or tragic how you constantly need to use words like dumb, retarded, 'know nothing' and silly to prove your point. Did it ever occur to you that Release was simply a commercial flop, whereas Fundamental is generally, massively being considered a true return to form. Reviews are mostly raving, I'm With Stupid is their best performing lead single in 10 years, the album made #5; almost as good as Bilingual (which had 4 singles taken from it).

I'm also a realist: there's a quality difference between Release and Fundamental. And I don't react badly, I just have a different point of view, compared to yours. A view that I won't repeat again.

Burj · #78 Post by **Burj** » Tue 20 Jun 2006, 4:52 pm

jamie1978 wrote: Right, but you don't hava problem with a bunch of people speculating about why Numb isnt being played live as its going to be the third single?

well the original poster merely asked the question "Is the fact that Numb wasn't part of the recent setlist a good sign that that Numb WON'T be single 3 (or 4, or 5)?"

it's hardly up there with the ludicrous pomposity of "PSB have NO INTENTION" portraying opinion as solid fact.

FWIW, I'm not surprised Numb is not being played on the festival tour, no ballads are. But come the world tour in the autumn, I'd hazzard a guess that they will include it, and that there will be a single No.3, be it Numb or not, but possibly not till January (when the tour comes to Europe).

profile790 · #79 Post by **profile790** » Tue 20 Jun 2006, 4:56 pm

Burj wrote:
jamie1978 wrote: Right, but you don't hava problem with a bunch of people speculating about why Numb isnt being played live as its going to be the third single?
well the original poster merely asked the question "Is the fact that Numb wasn't part of the recent setlist a good sign that that Numb WON'T be single 3 (or 4, or 5)?"

it's hardly up there with the ludicrous pomposity of "PSB have NO INTENTION" portraying opinion as solid fact.

FWIW, I'm not surprised Numb is not being played on the festival tour, no ballads are. But come the world tour in the autumn, I'd hazzard a guess that they will include it, and that there will be a single No.3, be it Numb or not, but possibly not till January (when the tour comes to Europe).

Agreed. And I place my bets on Indefinite Leave To Remain.

jamie1978 · #80 Post by **jamie1978** » Tue 20 Jun 2006, 6:45 pm

Burj wrote:

FWIW, I'm not surprised Numb is not being played on the festival tour, no ballads are. But come the world tour in the autumn, I'd hazzard a guess that they will include it, and that there will be a single No.3, be it Numb or not, but possibly not till January (when the tour comes to Europe).

The chances of a single being released in January to promote an album released 9 month previously with a gap of 6 months since the last single are approximately zero. Surely you must know that at least.

I don't know what people don't understand about the statement 'singles exist to promote albums'. Having a 6 month gap between singles makes no commercial sense whatsoever.

And neither would releasing a further single which does not increase album sales. Mark my words, if Minimal does not increase Fundamental's sales there will not be a third single.

jamie1978 · #81 Post by **jamie1978** » Tue 20 Jun 2006, 6:46 pm

stats-freak wrote:
jamie1978 wrote:Disagreeing with the assertion that the Pet Shop Boys are a fan-based act with little appeal in the pop mainstream makes you look very silly indeed.

The Pet Shop Boys actually stated before Release was, well, released, that it would have 4 singles. In the end, two were released. So it doenst really matter what Neil said about Bright Young Things because EMI decide how many singles to release, not the PSB's.

You're just clutching on to straws like most other deluded fans, you appear irrational and react badly to some simple home truths.

I'm a Pet Shop Boys fan, I love their work, but I'm also a realist.
It's either funny or tragic how you constantly need to use words like dumb, retarded, 'know nothing' and silly to prove your point. Did it ever occur to you that Release was simply a commercial flop, whereas Fundamental is generally, massively being considered a true return to form. Reviews are mostly raving, I'm With Stupid is their best performing lead single in 10 years, the album made #5; almost as good as Bilingual (which had 4 singles taken from it).

I'm also a realist: there's a quality difference between Release and Fundamental. And I don't react badly, I just have a different point of view, compared to yours. A view that I won't repeat again.

Look at the chart run of Fundamental. It is the PERFECT example of how a fan-based act perform in the charts.

You talk about Release being a huge commercial flop. Well, actually, the chart run is almost IDENTICAL to Fundamental. Indeed, in its fourth week on the chart Release was actually placed higher than Fundamental is now.

I rest my case.

Burj · #82 Post by **Burj** » Tue 20 Jun 2006, 6:50 pm

Depeche Mode are still releasing singles (now the fourth) from Playing The Angel.

I suggested January as they can promote the tour and cheat their way to another top 10 single in the quietest week of the year

jamie1978 · #83 Post by **jamie1978** » Tue 20 Jun 2006, 6:52 pm

Depeche Mode have sold over two million copies of Playing the Angel, they sell extremely well in Europe. The two are not really comparable.

Eldritch · #84 Post by **Eldritch** » Tue 20 Jun 2006, 7:27 pm

Mute has a different strategy when it comes to singles. All recent Goldfrapp, Moby, Depeche Mode albums have spawned at least four singles; even Nightbird had three singles. Just by comparison's sake, EMI have released only three singles from the last Robbie album. Releasing singles can be rather costly, since the singles sales are so non-existent these days, plus making a decent video costs money, promotion too. Therefore labels release fewer singles from an album these days. Where they previously released a fourth single, now they'll put out a live dvd from the current tour.

Burj · #85 Post by **Burj** » Tue 20 Jun 2006, 7:41 pm

jamie1978 wrote:Having a 6 month gap between singles makes no commercial sense whatsoever.

It does if the Fundamental Tour kicks off it's European leg.

Deschanel · #86 Post by **Deschanel** » Tue 20 Jun 2006, 7:47 pm

Whatever one thinks of Diane Warren, her songs make money , she has a track record of hits, she has personal relationships with rec co people.

Am I saying that Numb might be a single, or a hit even? No. But it is not extraordinarily out of the question, even here in the US.

jamie1978 · #87 Post by **jamie1978** » Tue 20 Jun 2006, 8:34 pm

Burj wrote:
jamie1978 wrote:Having a 6 month gap between singles makes no commercial sense whatsoever.
It does if the Fundamental Tour kicks off it's European leg.

No, it doesn't. The tour and associated reviews will promote the album then.

Also, EMI don't fund the tours. Its nothing to do with them, its down to promoters and the Pet Shop Boys themselves. EMI do however have to fund single releases. And they will NOT release a single during a tour which is promoting the album for them, effectively for free, when the album is long dead and buried as far as they are concerned anyway.

dgraysn · #88 Post by **dgraysn** » Tue 20 Jun 2006, 9:29 pm

you're soooo smart and on top of things. i bet PSB hire you soon to manage their career. especially now that you've made the point that Fundamental is going down the dumper.

im not going to do a search to back it up, but there are bands who have released singles as part of tour promotion. a popular single combined with a tour can only help sales of recent albums.

Madonna has a new single out and she's been on tour for weeks. why would Warner release a single now???? how long ago idd Confessions come out....let me see... hmm i thnk it's at least six months ago.

PSB have also had non-album singles. as for singles not selling - thats the fault of the record companies themselves. they decided to kill the format. The ridiculous British Chart rules about
how many tracks/minutes a single can be hasnt helped.

jamie1978 · #89 Post by **jamie1978** » Tue 20 Jun 2006, 11:11 pm

Madonna and the Pet Shop Boys are in completely different worlds, you cannot even begin to compare the marketing of a Madonna album which has already sold over 6m copies globally to a Pet Shop Boys album marketed very modestly by anyones standards.

The notion that they would release a single in January 2007, after an apparent 6 month gap, to promote Fundamental, which will be long forgotten about by then, is quite simply ridiculous. I mean, really, it doesnt even merit further discussion.

Comparing to people like Madonna just makes your arguement weak and desperate, as there really is no comparison.

With regard to your comment about singles, who cares. Its not even relevant because ALL music acts including the Pet Shop Boys have to market albums this way. The fact is that some singles work very well in promoting an album, and others don't. The reason Pet Shop Boys singles enter the charts relatively high and sell 80% of their copies in the first week before rapidly dropping is because they are a fan-based act.

Here is an example of what I mean:

Full chart run of Hung Up : 1-1-1-3-2-4-8-3-3-7-14-13-18-17-16-20-26-32-42-45-52-41-50-58-61-63-68-68-66

Full chart run of I'm With Stupid: 8-25-47

And you are telling me the PSB's are not a fan based act? Get real.

the last call · #90 Post by **the last call** » Tue 20 Jun 2006, 11:13 pm

Butters wrote:Based on the Stockholm audience's reaction, Minimal should not be then next single. Integral should.

Basing on my co-workers reaction, Minimal should have become first single.