Decide something less decisional, but not very original

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wirral39 · #1 Post by **wirral39** » Sat 22 Jul 2006, 1:08 pm

Decide something less decisional? I put in 'decisional' on Google (UK only) and got a mere 1,070 results.

The use of 'al' as a suffix to a noun to give it an adjectival function is fairly common (as in the word 'adjectival'), but when was the last time you overheard someone say the word 'decisional' down the pub?

When I first heard it, I thought 'they can't think of anything else to fit, so let's just put in 'decisional' (as an alternative to formal, earthal, lifeal, spatial, boxal, cellal etc.). A bit like the way that the line 'I guess it's just what I must do' doesn't really add anything to the Human League's Don't You Want Me.

The Catholic Medical Quarterly carried an article in 2000 in which it identified 'decisional privacy' as 'the ability to make one’s own decisions and to act on those decisions, free from governmental or other unwanted interference' which sort of links back to Integral and the underpinning themes of Fundamental.

On a similar note, there are lots of words ending -al related to this album, it is surprising they didn't put in tracks called Anal, Arsenal (not a million miles from 'Anal') or You Can Call Me Al (very Paul Simonal).

And another one. Do you think the Sodom and Gomorrah Show is really about the Saddam and Gomorrah show?

james23_uk · #2 Post by **james23_uk** » Sat 22 Jul 2006, 4:16 pm

Rhymes with minimal.

gomorrah · #3 Post by **gomorrah** » Sat 22 Jul 2006, 4:23 pm

it's called poetic license and it knows no grammar and syntax rules. it's like writing "you and her and I" and getting waaaaaaaaaay away with it.

! · #4 Post by ! » Sat 22 Jul 2006, 4:49 pm

Does it matter?

#5 Post by **Drico One** » Sat 22 Jul 2006, 11:17 pm

It's undoubtedly clumsy inelegant usage and grates on first listen. I don't think it's particularly poetic for it to be considered poetic licence. It seems to me that Neil locked himself into a concept and couldn't find the way out. Even a word like "traditional" would have been preferable.

Drico.

Tomas · #6 Post by **Tomas** » Sat 22 Jul 2006, 11:30 pm

Drico One wrote:Even a word like "traditional" would have been preferable.

But would that result in the same, erm, "paradox" like "decide something less decisional" kind of presents to me?

#7 Post by **Drico One** » Sat 22 Jul 2006, 11:42 pm

What paradox, Tomas? I see a form of perverse redundancy in the line rather than a paradox. "Decisional" means to reach a conclusion. For my money, Neil's just being too clever for his own good or simply ran out of time to find a more suitable rhyme. There may be rhyme but there's no reason with this one.

Drico.

Tomas · #8 Post by **Tomas** » Sat 22 Jul 2006, 11:55 pm

Well yes, I also used "paradox" to indicate I take it with a pinch of salt, as it is not a real paradox, and am aware that it may sound redundant (but not as much as saying "fall down" for example IMHO).

But on the other hand, it fits well for me there, and if not a paradox, then I can imagine it as some little "joke". Pretentious may it be, but it's a pop song after all and "traditional" or the like would not make it for me now that I know the original version. I'm used to it and it just flows.

#9 Post by **Drico One** » Sat 22 Jul 2006, 11:58 pm

Oh, I don't doubt that, Tomas. I'm used to it now too. I still think it's lazy, but I suppose my aesthetic objections don't merit a tome-like thesis on a message board (not that it's stopped me before).

Drico.

Tomas · #10 Post by **Tomas** » Sun 23 Jul 2006, 12:27 am

Drico One wrote:a tome-like thesis

Surely not, it has to be minimal!

PS I think lyrics-wise, Minimal is generally kind of lazy. But even so it is the best single choice in ages for me. Great pop production. Pity the outro is cut out in the radio version.

wirral39 · #11 Post by **wirral39** » Sun 23 Jul 2006, 10:52 am

I agree: 'Decide something less traditional' or 'less predictable' or even 'derisional' would have been more rational, if not immaculate or perfect. The usual NT genius had a bit of an off-day, unless of course he made an intelligent if pretentious decision(!) to be lyrically lazy. Not to have an agenda is, of course, an agenda in itself, someone said.

What's all this 'form, earth, life' stuff about too? Sounds like they've been watching David Attenborough.

Naughty Zoot · #12 Post by **Naughty Zoot** » Mon 24 Jul 2006, 3:13 am

Drico One wrote:It's undoubtedly clumsy inelegant usage and grates on first listen. I don't think it's particularly poetic for it to be considered poetic licence. It seems to me that Neil locked himself into a concept and couldn't find the way out. Even a word like "traditional" would have been preferable.
Drico.

According to Encarta, decisional is a valid declension of decision:
something somebody has chosen

But I must agree that it seems as though Neil wrote himself into a lyrical corner on this one. It's not exactly a case of " when good sentences go bad " but it teeters on the edge - & quite precariously, I might add.

Still, this isn't the first time this sort of thing has happened, is it?
I could cite some examples but 18 days of 100+ temps, 2 days of rum & cokes and 1 really special encounter with "Z" has left me at a loss to do so.

Therefore -- Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to post some of Neil's most egregious lyrical lapses.

wirral39 · #13 Post by **wirral39** » Mon 24 Jul 2006, 9:30 am

That's a brilliant PSB song title:

'It's not the first time this has happened'