do you agree with their political outlook?

[Danny C]

What a belter of a post for my 500th!

Yeah, you really copy/pasted that paragraph brilliantly

Now that you seem to know what racism is, perhaps you could stop applying it where it should not be applied?

Equal rights, fine by me, but the liberal lefties are going too far on things like racism, crime tolerance and respect for one another's right to existance.

What would you term as "going too far"? And why are you tarring the entire left-wing of British politics with the same brush?

[Miriam]

I think PSB are overreacting in Integral. In the Netherlands we're nowadays obliged to carry an ID with you, wherever you go. My life really didn't change. It only helps the police to indentify people faster, when necessary.

I do not agree. Sure, my life hasn't changed, I've never been asked to show my i.d. But isn't it weird you can be fined 50 euro for *just* not carrying i.d. with you, doesn't that just scream abuse? Have you seen the statistics on how many people got fined in the first half year? A *lot*.. Worse is the law that people *suspected* of preparing a terrorist attack can be arrested... Good think though that no judge has gone crazy enough yet to convict any suspects as it's totally against all principles of the "rechtsstaat". And anyway, the lyrics of Integral are not that extreme; "if you've got nothing to hide, you've got nothing to fear, if you've done something wrong, you shouldn't even be here" isn't that just the truth, you said it yourself "I've got nothing to hide, so it doesn't bother me".. I think the lyrics are funny, and pretty much true...

Anyway, I don't take the "political" views in the songs too seriously.. I think it's typical for PSB to sing ironically/sarcastically about issues that everybody raises an eyebrow over.. Also typical to sing from a "different" point of view e.g. the terrorist's... And I think Integral describes the anti-terrorist trend in Europe very well, not so much what's actions are actually being taken, but definitely the idea of protectionism..

[james23_uk]

What a belter of a post for my 500th!

Yeah, you really copy/pasted that paragraph brilliantly

Now that you seem to know what racism is, perhaps you could stop applying it where it should not be applied?

Equal rights, fine by me, but the liberal lefties are going too far on things like racism, crime tolerance and respect for one another's right to existance.

What would you term as "going too far"? And why are you tarring the entire left-wing of British politics with the same brush?

Durrr, of course it was copied and pasted. I was proving what the definition was and showing that with their anti-white selection policy the police force were in breach of the contents.

Wouldnt have proved much if I'd made up my own personal definition now would it.

[Danny C]

Durrr, of course it was copied and pasted. I was proving what the definition was and showing that with their anti-white selection policy the police force were in breach of the contents.

Umm, you didn't prove anything of the sort. Read it again:

“Any distinction, exclusion, restriction, or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment, or exercise, on equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural, or any other field of public life.”

The bit I put in italics means that it's okay for the police force to use positive discrimination to get more ethnic minorities into their ranks.

I don't honestly see your problem with us making organisations like the police more representative of the people they represent. I personally don't want an all-white police force - perhaps you do?

[glennjridge]

I think generally the ethnic minorities have a far too much victim mentality.the police's main operating areas where they do these stops are usually high crime areas. and here in america,that generally means black or minority neighborhoods. thats not a racist comment, thats just the way it is.

to say they cant do that is as ridiculous as the actual policy in NY after 911 that had subway police ignoring middle eastern types in favor of screening white old ladies.

its liberalism run wild. and the liberals are happy. until they lose a loved one. then they switch gears and complain not enough is being done.

[Drico One]

Actually I should explain, I totally know that my post about the police is flawed. However what is not flawed is that the world would go mad if the same thing was happening the other way round.

It's not happening the other way round, James, because there is no need for it to happen the other way round. The world would not go mad if there was a need for it to happen the other way round.

I, personally, do not agree with quotas and "positive discrimination" in tackling imbalances unless affected individuals are compensated for being pushed out of positions to make way for a suitable candidate from a poorly represented minority. However, positive discrimination is at least well intentioned and produces some residual benefits. Naked racism, on the other hand, has no saving grace, save for making social inadequates feel better about themselves at the expense of ethnic minorities.

Drico.

[Deschanel]

I do agree, strongly, with Neil's stand against ID cards.

"If you've done nothing wrong/You've got nothing to fear" is EXACTly what we are hearing in the US over Bush's unprecedented surveillance of Americans- phone, internet, financial transactions.. all in the name oif the "war on terror". Which is apparently as endless as a war against an emotion can be.

It's dismaying to me that a lot of younger people seem not to appreciate the idea that govt should stay out of our personal lives on principle. They freely give out every sort of personal info to marketers to get 5 cents off a soda and endless other capitalist exploitations of dumb youth..

It's ironic that the Republican party in the US has been all about less government intrusion in private lives, while the biggest surbveillance op. in history has arisen under Bush's infinite war, his outrageous grab for unlimited executive power. And the Wal-mart shoppers are content with that.

What I would REEEEALLLy love, and it ought to happen eventually: letting the right-wing Republican FOX addicts know that the gov't. is spying and has records on every single porn site they've visited in the last 5 years. It's a fact that the GOP South consumes more porn (and guns, cigarettes and alcohol) than the godless liberal blue states..

Sorry I'm going a bit off-topic. Yes, I agree with their politics. Neil is a bit of a champagne socialist, but hey, it's because he can be.

[jasonjohn]

Psycological is all about fear and knee-jerk reactions.

People say that ID cards are a knee jerk reaction

But I also think people extremely opposed to ID cards are acting out of fear and knee jerk reactions

these people prevent a reasonable and rational debate... ID cards do have many positives

[Syncratic]

Psycological is all about fear and knee-jerk reactions.

People say that ID cards are a knee jerk reaction

But I also think people extremely opposed to ID cards are acting out of fear and knee jerk reactions

Not really. They're looking at the debate and saying that it's not for them and that part of its arguments insomuch that it claims to prevent terrorism doesn't really stand up. Read back at the countless debeates we've already had. I think there's been some concise points made.

You might even argue that the issue of bringing out ID cards is a 'knee-jerk' reaction in itself. Governments are kings of the knee-jerk reaction as history and no doubt the future has and will show.

[Danny C]

ID cards do have many positives

Like...?

(Here's a hint to get you started: a false sense of security is not a positive, nor is having your every move tracked remotely. Always having a handy piece of plastic to cut your cocaine with only counts as a positive if you don't ordinarily carry a credit card round with you anyway)

[Propertius]

I suppose there are positives to ID cards -- if you work for the government and you want to keep track of your livestock.

Bravo for Neil and Chris; they're exactly right on ID cards and Bush and Blair.

[gomorrah]

I suppose there are positives to ID cards -- if you work for the government and you want to keep track of your livestock.

oh no, don't give 'em ideas. mayhap they'll put bells on the cards

[FeverfewTipox]

I don't really like the idea of ID cards.
It's like... world cup tickets this year contained a minature radio transmitter built into a wafer thin microchip. These were read by bigger radio transmitters fitted into turnstiles which made things easier for everyone to get into a match.
But their computers knew exactly who had turned up to a match and which seat they were going to be sitting at.
Chips similar to these are going to be fitted into ID cards, and unlike that match ticket, the ID card will be with you in your wallet wherever you go. The government doesn't intend to make it a legal obligation... but anytime you need to prove your identity, you'll have to produce it pronto and you'll soon tire of the nuisance of leaving it at home.
So if the government wants to know who is doing what at any given time, they only need to use recievers that can work several feet away from the cards. These readers can be hidden anywhere... in lampposts, under paving stones...
Maybe, or so it sounds, there's no need to worry about this. But what, for example, if you wanted to take part in say an anti-war protest and the government didn't like this at all - they thought all participants in such an event were just aiding and abetting the work of terrorists.
They could put a tiny little card in a remote controlled plane and fly it over the heads of the crowd, and in a flash they would gain a list of the names and addresses of every single 'troublemaker' in the land.
They could then easily track you down. Even if you were, say, hiding in a safe house because sooner or later you'd get hungry and have to go shopping...
And these microchips are going to be implanted into almost everything you buy. Apparently to cut queues at the checkout because the items would be scanned by recievers at the exit. You then pay by credit card and the legal ownership of the shopping will be transferred to you... Good idea? Well, those chips will continue transmitting from your shopping all the way to your front door, and from the inside of your 'safe house,' too. And you're found.
Large companies are buying into this scheme and sponsoring the development of the radio frequency ID chip, and companies such as Gilette are already testing prototype chips in razor packaging.

Ah well I did go a little off the topic of ID cards there... but these radio frequency ID chips are pretty relevant.
I don't like the way everything is beginning to get 1984-like...

[FeverfewTipox]

'Those who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty nor security.' - Benjamin Franklin

[minimal]

love songs to a terrorist?

fugitive? that's not a love song "to a terrorist".

m+