do you agree with their political outlook?

[raggatwin]

Drico wrote

To be fair, and speaking as a white man, the white man has a hell of a lot to answer for.

I am Irish and working class. I have nothing to ansewr for.

no INDIVIDUAL is responsible for a cultural or historical ill (unless you're a perpetrator by -- say, in america -- still owning slaves of some sort etc).

but as someone who belongs to the majority upperclass strata in India as well as a minority in America, I certainly believe cultures, classes, races, and strata that have, over the centuries, 'lorded' (to use pedestrian language rather than legal/political) it over others the way the British have during colonial times, the White Americans have over the Native Americans and Blacks, and upperclass/caste so-called Brahmin Indians have over a majority of their non-uppercaste brethrens... yes, there's a heck of a lot to answer for.

not even a percentage of that guilty (yes, guilty) past can be redressed/assuaged by 'affirmative action', mind you. but some of the scale does need to be tipped back. and whether it's symbolic or practical, it goes a long way in restoring good faith.

all this is, of course, my opinion. this is why I am pro-reservation in India and pro-affirmative action in America. I'm speaking as a participant on both sides of the issue.

It's funny how people when refering to slavery always mention America and the West Africans which they held in bondage, they never refer to the Arabs and the east Africans or indeed the arab slavers of modern day Sudan or the thousands of Indians, Chinese, Philipinos working in slave like conditions present day Saudi Arabia or Dubai,
Qatar etc.....

[gomorrah]

it's the same reason no one mentions the 2 million plus people who died within a week -- a WEEK -- during the partition of India. instead, the fact of 6 million jews dying during holocaust taints the annals of world history. it doesn't make any of it any less important.. just that some events in history have, for whatever reasons, assumed exemplary status.

[NorthernLad]

I personally very much agree with their political outlook....


---
www.BluespaceRadio.com
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[Drico One]

But why stop at ethnic groups? What if turns out, people with read hair are under-represented in, say, positions of public office. Should we then have a red-haired-people-quota? Or how about homosexuals? Or cat-owners? Or Pet Shop Boys fans? Or...I think you catch my drift.

No, I think you are dissembling. People have generally not been sold into slavery because they have red hair. To equate cat owners with members of institutionally repressed ethnic minorities in terms of public representation really suggests your approach to the discussion is either deliberately flippant or somewhat facetious.

First of all, even if the motive behind it is well-meaning, that doesn't really matter, if the result is bad.

I disagree with you here. You suggested that positive discrimination is the same as other forms of discrimination. I replied that it isn't because the intent is well-meaning. I genuinely do not think you can seriously equate the gas chambers of Treblinka with a legislative move in countries overwhelmingly dominated by a particular group of people to improve the lot of an unrepresented and socially disadvantaged minority - regardless of its obvious flaws.

Second, positive discrimination only contributes to the further victimizing of ethnic minorities and women. We're fundamentally telling them that they are not good enough to get a job on their own, so we'll create a quota-system to help make up for their personal shortcomings.

No, we're telling them that we'll give them a leg up in society until such a time as it will no longer be needed because insidious racism makes it impossible for minority groups to earn equal or proportionate representation as things currently stand.

Thus, positive discrimination will not create equality, but will only serve to amplify a sense not belonging. I know several people belonging to ethnic who are sick and tired of being placed in "disadvantaged" bracket when they are well-educated people perfectly capable of taking care of themselves.

Positive discrimination isn't designed to help well-educated middle-class individuals from any ethnic minority. It is designed to increase the representation of ethnic groups as a whole.

Perhaps. But two wrongs really don't make a right.

There's no perhaps about it. The right rarely addresses the issue by taking account of minorities.

Drico.

[Drico One]

I am Irish and working class. I have nothing to ansewr for.

"The Irish are the blacks of Europe. I'm black and I'm proud."

Drico.

[pierre]

It's dismaying to me that a lot of younger people seem not to appreciate the idea that govt should stay out of our personal lives on principle.

I, for once, think that the solution to most of the problems occidental societies are facing these days is to get a bit more of government control in financial and economic matters (even if it means a restriction of your freedom to use gas-consuming cars or air conditioning). A governement should be allowed for instance to ban people from having guns or to severely punish things like fiscal fraud.

Actually I never quite understood that hate of a central government you find in many Anglo-Saxon countries... In order to live in a modern society you have to accept you have rights and obligations toward your fellow citizens. It's a basic fact people always seem to ignore. Of course the balance to be found between civil liberties and obligations is a difficult one but I'm always a bit wary of that basinc principle of 'No government influence in my life'. If you want to be protected by the police, medicare, the fire brigade or whatever, you should accept a minimum of obligations toward your country.

[GalataPSB]

bush and blair are stupid for taking action?

http://www.toostupidtobepresident.com/

[danini]

instead, the fact of 6 million jews dying during holocaust taints the annals of world history. it doesn't make any of it any less important.. just that some events in history have, for whatever reasons, assumed exemplary status.

i think you are a fascist and a racist. the same goes about lush whos an obvious white racist who thinks racial minorties ae inferior to the white.

im very disapointed to see so many racists on this board. my family is originally from yemen, and it means that i belong to the arabic race (although i am a jewish). that does not make me any less or inferior to you white europens. it's very sad that there are people like lush and james 23 here

[Technotrancemix]

whoopeee! I get called a Polak from time to time. I don't find it racist. I get called a Brit from time to time. I don't find it racist. That's because I'm a bit of the 2 and generally when people say that about me they are politically correct and not racist one bit!

Question! If a white bloke named Nigel from Nigeria was called a "5-letter word (which I won't use on this forum as it will offend the so-many of you)" by someone from say, Britain, would they be correct?

This racist thing is getting out of hand and people don't realise they are being over the top about the politics of racism!

Now, I wonder if Drico dude will accept me if I ask him "how is my favourite black from Europe doing?" He's mentioned he is happy about being acknowledged as a black of Europe. So, if someone is ok with being called these "so-called-names", why not use them?

[gomorrah]

instead, the fact of 6 million jews dying during holocaust taints the annals of world history. it doesn't make any of it any less important.. just that some events in history have, for whatever reasons, assumed exemplary status.

i think you are a fascist and a racist. the same goes about lush whos an obvious white racist who thinks racial minorties ae inferior to the white.

im very disapointed to see so many racists on this board. my family is originally from yemen, and it means that i belong to the arabic race (although i am a jewish). that does not make me any less or inferior to you white europens. it's very sad that there are people like lush and james 23 here

LOL wtf? now that's a new one of all the epithets I've heard 'bout moi

methinks you should allow yourself just a couple more English courses in order to accurately decipher the import of my posts in their entirety. at least, the ones in this thread.

and I'm as far from a "White European" as Gandhi was from General Dyer.

besides, how do you know I am not Jewish, eh?

[Drico One]

instead, the fact of 6 million jews dying during holocaust taints the annals of world history. it doesn't make any of it any less important.. just that some events in history have, for whatever reasons, assumed exemplary status.

i think you are a fascist and a racist. the same goes about lush whos an obvious white racist who thinks racial minorties ae inferior to the white.

im very disapointed to see so many racists on this board. my family is originally from yemen, and it means that i belong to the arabic race (although i am a jewish). that does not make me any less or inferior to you white europens. it's very sad that there are people like lush and james 23 here

I'll tell you what's sad: Trawling through ancient forum archives, pulling long dead threads back from oblivion as a matter of normal practice, and then denouncing Lush, Gomorrah, and James as racists when far more entertaining sobriquets could be produced to describe that toothsome trio.

I might not agree with some of the views they express, but I think your silly outburst is uncalled for. If the expression of racist opinion is a bannable offence around here, I'd like to see the labelling of people as racists without proof treated in a similar vein.

Techno: Just because you might call your sister a whore doesn't mean you should welcome similar comments from those outside your family circle.

Drico.

[StevePSB]

And at the risk of being crucified by those opposed to the locking of threads, this thread ran it's course and died in July - we're now in October, so bringing back such a dead topic to call members of the forum racists means that this ends here.


StevePSB