How do you like this track?

Message

BlueSwan · #31 Post by **BlueSwan** » Thu 19 Apr 2007, 5:33 am

glennjridge wrote:yeah me too.I started a couple but dissapointingly I keep getting this really bad hiss when I do vocals.I think my soundcard is finally going. it doesnt help that my computer sounds like JFK airport either. might be time to upgrade.

A great sounding M-Audio Audiophile 2496 card is very cheap these days.

so heart · #32 Post by **so heart** » Thu 19 Apr 2007, 1:31 pm

glennjridge wrote: I keep getting this really bad hiss when I do vocals.I think my soundcard is finally going. it doesnt help that my computer sounds like JFK airport either. might be time to upgrade.

yes, vocals are somewhat difficult. i sing into a sure beta 58A mic (which was rather expensive), my soundcard is a terratec phase 22 (affordable). maybe you should upgrade your computer to la guardia or even better sailplane airport

glennjridge · #33 Post by **glennjridge** » Thu 19 Apr 2007, 10:56 pm

BlueSwan wrote:
glennjridge wrote:yeah me too.I started a couple but dissapointingly I keep getting this really bad hiss when I do vocals.I think my soundcard is finally going. it doesnt help that my computer sounds like JFK airport either. might be time to upgrade.
A great sounding M-Audio Audiophile 2496 card is very cheap these days.

thanks for the heads-up guys. believe me,I'm all about cheap.and I've read some good reviews about their cards.

I've got an old computer and it is quite loud and I'm forced to record vocals close to it as an in-apartment vocalbooth just isnt in my budget.

anwyays always love to hear the covers,hopefully when I'm back up an runnin I can at least put something out. thanks again.

BlueSwan · #34 Post by **BlueSwan** » Fri 20 Apr 2007, 6:14 am

glennjridge wrote:
BlueSwan wrote:
glennjridge wrote:yeah me too.I started a couple but dissapointingly I keep getting this really bad hiss when I do vocals.I think my soundcard is finally going. it doesnt help that my computer sounds like JFK airport either. might be time to upgrade.
A great sounding M-Audio Audiophile 2496 card is very cheap these days.
thanks for the heads-up guys. believe me,I'm all about cheap.and I've read some good reviews about their cards.

I've got an old computer and it is quite loud and I'm forced to record vocals close to it as an in-apartment vocalbooth just isnt in my budget.

anwyays always love to hear the covers,hopefully when I'm back up an runnin I can at least put something out. thanks again.

What are your PC specs?

glennjridge · #35 Post by **glennjridge** » Fri 20 Apr 2007, 10:04 pm

well its a custom job,6 years old, although it is a 3.06 GHZ with 512MB of ram with an creative audigy 2 ZS soundcard so it can handle high end programs and record no problem and has in the past. I use SONAR 3 with an SM 58 microphone.

this background hiss is a fairly new problem. it started off as very light and now its pretty loud in the audio wav's..in the early days there was no hiss and it was a quiet computer.

I'm pretty sure the soundcard shit the bed,possibly mixed with the loudness of the actual computer.

I've gone over pretty much everything. mic cables, moving the mic outside the room,trying diffrent mic's,I just think its time I spent money on a good quiet computer and interface and upgrade everything rather than try and salvage a faultering system.

It had a good run.

BlueSwan · #36 Post by **BlueSwan** » Sat 21 Apr 2007, 6:24 am

Using an M-Audio card, like the fairly cheap one I suggested, would definitely be a step up compared to the Creative card, which is more of an allround soundcard that gamers like.

Getting a quiet PC is definitely a good thing, but having said that, my own PC really isn't that quiet.

I'm not really familiar with your mic.

Do you use a noisegate?

glennjridge · #37 Post by **glennjridge** » Sat 21 Apr 2007, 4:44 pm

oh yeah, now I know better. your right. the creative card isnt the type of card one who is serious about recording music should have.

I'm a big fan of that magazine computer music, I read that alot and I think now I am getting a handle on that I should be getting. a proper interface for starters.

I was just plugging my microphone into the face card on the computer with a headphone style jack.no proper interface or pre-amp. its probably the type of thing a proffesional would look down upon.

thanks for the heads up about the noise gate, I looked that up and thats something I need to look into. I was always surprised to learn that the softer the signal, the louder the background noise is, which is why I need to also boost the mic system so I get a louder wav.

all these things add up to why I've gotten this hiss.the mic I use really is a low end mic also I believe more suited to live shows rather than recording.. its only around 150 dollars. my next one might be the neumann TLM 103 priced at around 1000 dollars.

now that I looked into the card series you mentioned, chances are I'm getting one of them.this is why its best to deal with someone who actually is recording.

you would be surpised how some of the kids who actually work at these pro-audio stores dont know much than surface information about recording.

thanks again

BlueSwan · #38 Post by **BlueSwan** » Sat 21 Apr 2007, 7:44 pm

Glenn, if you're about to splash out on a Neumann mic, then let me tell you this: spending big bucks on a name mic will only be worth the dollars if you also get a decent preamp and soundcard and decent surroundings for recording vocals. Otherwise you might be better off spending fewer bucks on a still good, but not exceptional mic, yet get a good soundcard and preamp.

In Blue Swan we record vocals in a room that it not quiet enough, using a fairly cheap condenser mic a not very good sounding mixer and a decent preamp. All of this is routed into the cheap M-Audio card mentioned above. We don't get results that are anywhere near professionel standard, but for demo use, most people would say that it is good enough.

At Zzounds, you'd get a FAR improved version of the mic that we use for 230$ - http://www.zzounds.com/item--RODNT1A

You can get the mentioned soundcard for a measly 90$ - believe me, you don't need a soundcard that costs more than that: http://www.zzounds.com/item--MDOAP2496

With only 320$ spend so far, you might choose to splash out 630$ for something like this: http://www.zzounds.com/item--FOCMH440 - they even offer this in conjunction with the RODE mic mentioned above for 740$ - a steal if you ask me (prices are far higher in Denmark). The Voicemaster has a preamp, a compressor, noisegate, eq, deesser. More than you need, actually.

This would put you well in business for 830$ and you could save the rest for a computer upgrade.

Mind you, you don't REALLY need the Focusrite Voicemaster, although it is nice to have. You could opt for just a decent preamp and then do the rest of the processing on your PC.

BlueSwan · #39 Post by **BlueSwan** » Sat 21 Apr 2007, 7:50 pm

Did I mention that the setup mentioned above would put you WELL AHEAD of the setup that I have for recording vocals! So unless your ambition is to get FAR better vocal sound than we do, then you don't need to spend more money than that.

However, I forgot that you also absolutely need a mic stand and a pop filter (you get a free pop filter with the RODE mic if you order from that site) - inexpensive, but nessecary accessories!

glennjridge · #40 Post by **glennjridge** » Sun 22 Apr 2007, 6:46 am

oh yeah I'm learning you can defeat the whole purpose of a high end mic by having subpar intefacing equipment(pre-amp/soundcard)

although I'm quite sure your recording experience is more than mine and you have better ears so maybe you can be more self critical,I certainly know your vocals are
not demo quality.

I was listening to the songs on your myspace page, take "regrets" (awesome chorus BTW)for example the vocal is clear and in your face and sits great in the mix. I know vocals that are worthy of being called demoish and those are not even near that.

a proffesional studio might be able to splash more expensive plug-ins and effects on your vocals, but I dont see how a vocal can sound, say,clearer.interesting also how you have his vocal quite dry and it still sounds awesome, proving you dont need tons of effects, just a properly recorded vocal.

everything you said is really underlining that when I do upgrade I will at least have a better idea of what to mix and match and at least know where to start.

for instance,I actually cant believe now I found it acceptable to use essencially a video game soundcard.
this is why direct feedback from people who know something can at least point me in the right directiion.

I'm not going to do this impatiently, I'm going to look more into the stuff you posted. like I said, its great to bounce this tech stuff off a person who is utilizing it rather than just some guy who is selling it.

I appreciate you taking the time!

BlueSwan · #41 Post by **BlueSwan** » Sun 22 Apr 2007, 7:28 am

You'd be surprised to learn how little work I actually do on vocals (I've always found it tedious). I use equipment worse than what is suggested in my previous post. If you listened to the raw vocal takes I'm sure you'd agree that they are very demo-ish. I've found that in electronic music, which is usually very busy production wise, you can get away with having quite raw vocal takes, as long as they are well sung. It's basically about using massive amounts of compression, the right amount of EQ, deessing and a bit of reverb.

I use a plugin called Voxengo Voxformer, which is extremely easy to use. Infact, I pretty much always use the preset on there called "female vocal" (don't tell Henrik), despite everyone knowing that you "shouldn't" use presets, but rather program the plugin specifically for the vocalist you're using.

Basically this preset makes Henrik's vocal sit well in the mix using compression, eq and deessing (massive deessing is needed when working with Henrik).

This particular plugin costs 60$ here: http://www.voxengo.com/purchase/

But really, these days you can get excellent sounding plugins for free.

Same with the reverb. I pretty much always use the same reverb preset on a Waves RVerb, since I'm too lazy to actually check out how the other settings would sound. This is more costly at 200$, but there are plenty of good completely free reverb plugins on the net.

That's how uncreative I am with vocals. It's all done in a hurry on fairly cheap equipment and with little thought given to the real time processing.

I would like to have better equipment for recording vocals, but I would probably be too lazy to actually reap the benefits of having it, so for now my setup works.

glennjridge · #42 Post by **glennjridge** » Sun 22 Apr 2007, 4:08 pm

I'm thinking of the 2 PSB acapella's to home and dry that was released awhile ago.
it was very plain sounding even the other version that had some effects on it. lots of things I noticed because like you said, for electronic stuff you can get away with something that doesnt sound perfect.

for instance there were some parts where he didnt quite nail the doubletrack, but in the mix it sounds fine.

I use presets cause they generally seem to get me close to where I want to be quickly.

but in a way, what I'm going thru is probably a blessing in disquise because if it wasnt for the issues I've been having I never would have known I have a subpar set up.

you would be surprised how many people think they have a good setup till someone with knowledge or good ears tells them differently.

I dont have lots of money, but I feel its always best to sacrafice and splurge as I would rather be happy and in massive creditcard debt than cost effective and pissed off.

but like you said, its not about throwing money at the problem as you can end up with high end shit. anyways I'm still looking at the links you provided.

BlueSwan · #43 Post by **BlueSwan** » Sun 22 Apr 2007, 6:52 pm

If my wife would agree to it, then I'd get this mic: http://www.zzounds.com/item--NEUU87AISETZ

...and probably this preamp/channel strip: http://www.zzounds.com/item--AVAVT737SP

...but in Denmark those two items alone would set me back the equivalent of some 6000-7000$