European Song Contest - semi final

[markus]

I think the attitudes (here in sweden) towards eastern european countries in ESC is a bit scary. It's like people don't think they deserve to be in eurovision, or only if they fail and can be laughed at by the more "civilized" countries. I couldn't believe my eyes when I read the reactions in swedish magazines. Talk about sour grapes...Everybodys angry about the "clown" from Ukraine and his success...what about The Ark then?? Ola Salo was one of the biggest clowns of the whole evening! And nobody has a problem with Sweden getting high points from the other scandinavian countries, no it's the eastern europe being unfair and rude for voting at each other. And then stupid comments like europe doesn't understand "modern" music like The Ark...modern?? Glam rock has been around for 30 years and the swedish song was nothing but a poor mans "Waterloo".

Whats wrong with people anyway?

[skorpion76]

I will support Iceland.

Me too! It's a really great song, that one, and Eirikur is a very good singer.

I like the Belgian entry as well.

As the winner, if not Sweden wins of course, I hope for Iceland or Germany.

He is the best!

[dVTB]

I just hope that the Netherlands will quit participating. Thanks to the televoting system we're relegated to the Turkey-voting machine, rewarding them with 12 points, no matter how bad their song is.

I see many people discussing song quality here. It's completely irrelevant. I'm not claiming that Serbia didn't deserve to win, or that their song is bad. I just say that the final results are WAY to heavily influenced by other sentiments than song quality.

I think we should go back to professional jury's, judging the songs. This means that you have at least a CHANCE that songs are actually judged on their quality. And like I said, if the system doesn't change, I hope the Netherlands follows the example of Italy, that stopped competing since 1997.

[alig]

I just hope that the Netherlands will quit participating. Thanks to the televoting system we're relegated to the Turkey-voting machine, rewarding them with 12 points, no matter how bad their song is.

I see many people discussing song quality here. It's completely irrelevant. I'm not claiming that Serbia didn't deserve to win, or that their song is bad. I just say that the final results are WAY to heavily influenced by other sentiments than song quality.

I think we should go back to professional jury's, judging the songs. This means that you have at least a CHANCE that songs are actually judged on their quality. And like I said, if the system doesn't change, I hope the Netherlands follows the example of Italy, that stopped competing since 1997.

yes, there should be a jury deciding on the song just like in any sports competition witha panel awarding grades to the performance like in figure skating or gymnastics. nobody would ever consider letting the audience decide.
but of course the jury can still have a certain bias but not as obvious as in televoting. either that or a mixed voting with both a jury and a televoting should be considered.

[Riikka]

Well I think there should be a jury deciding which songs should go to the contest in the first place! And after that, when all songs have been rated as comparatively good, all people could vote for their favourites. Some sort of prelimination, so.

As you can see from the score table, also the Western European countries voted for the eastern countries! So it wasn't just neighbour voting. No country can win with only its neighbours' votes.

[JSDOUVRES]

They should have a western eurovision song contest and an eastern eurovision contest because this competition is now an absolute farce. Sorry but how some of those songs got the amount of votes they is is pathetic and sad and anybody watching could clearly see why. All these ex Russian/eastern european nations have ruined this competition and are have simply made the competition a boring mess.

[belated]

It's good it's not always English the winner sings. It's like back to the good old times. I see no problem those countries from East come - and win. It's much better than Celine Dion for Swizerland. The show is very nice anyway and the winner always is the one who got points from everywhere.

[dVTB]

the winner always is the one who got points from everywhere.

This is the most-heard, lamest excuse to justify Eurovision results. I've been hearing this crap comment for 4-5 years in a row now.

In a football competition, it also matters who's number 2, 3, 17, 18.... - The second best team deserves to be second, the third best teams ends up third. In professional sports events, there's a jury who judges participants in the fairest possible way.

This is what Eurovision lacks: fairness. The Eastern European domination of Eurovision is hardly fair. I don't care at all about the winner. Ever since we had televoting, they were all pretty crap songs, without any longevity. I care about which countries reach the finals, I care about the highest 10 in the finals. Many countries reach such a position because of friendly neighbours, rather than song or singing quality. THAT is my complaint, not that Serbia won.

[belated]

But it's always lacked fairness, no? Some countries get in by money even that nobody ever votes for them. And long time for example Finland was forced to sing in Finnish or Swedish - English was not allowed. And what's the point Swedes composing song for every single country, how is that promoting the country performing?

[Radiophonic]

They should have a western eurovision song contest and an eastern eurovision contest because this competition is now an absolute farce. Sorry but how some of those songs got the amount of votes they is is pathetic and sad and anybody watching could clearly see why. All these ex Russian/eastern european nations have ruined this competition and are have simply made the competition a boring mess.

I agree. I agree. I agree.

[Eldritch]

The Eastern European domination of Eurovision is hardly fair.

As Black Box Recorder once sang: "Life is unfair. Kill yourself or get over it.”

As belated pointed out, Eurovision has never been fair. There have always been friendly neighbours voting for each other. I won't comment on the Netherlands entry, since I didn't watch the semi-finals, but in the final it was obviously clear that most of the eastern European countries deserved their place in the top 10. It's clear that in those countries the Eurovision contest is held in high regard, because that's a valid way for them to gain visibility in the Europe, which has trouble in distinguishing all those countries from each other. It is clear that Eurovision matters in those countries, whereas in the west the contest is seen just as a kitschy joke, which can be heard in the western entries which are usually tainted by insincerity and ironic overtones.

Naturally east European countries benefit from the current voting system, but the fact that Finland won and Sweden was #5 last year shows that it's possible for other countries to do well also.

Your football analogy is not valid either. Most football or ice hockey fans don't care whether their team is number #7 or #16. Or even #2. Last weekend Finland didn't win silver in the Ice Hockey Word Championships, we just lost the final to Canada – on Sunday nobody was dancing on the streets. All sports fans want their team to win, everything else is a let-down. And football is not fair either: there's a considerable amount of luck plus questionable referee decisions (due to the fact of the ref's being human) involved in every single football game.

[dVTB]

The Eastern European domination of Eurovision is hardly fair.

As Black Box Recorder once sang: "Life is unfair. Kill yourself or get over it.” As belated pointed out, Eurovision has never been fair. There have always been friendly neighbours voting for each other.

I already got over it. I did not watch Eurovision, only scanned the 42 tracks quickly and predicted *before* the tv show that the Netherlands would give 12 points to Turkey.

I won't comment on the Netherlands entry, since I didn't watch the semi-finals, but in the final it was obviously clear that most of the eastern European countries deserved their place in the top 10.

How do you know? You're contradicting yourself. You didn't see the semi-finals, so you haven't heard 18 songs. Personally, I really liked the song from Belgium. But apparently you don't need to hear it to judge that it didn't deserve a Top 10 placing in the finals.

It's clear that in those countries the Eurovision contest is held in high regard, because that's a valid way for them to gain visibility in the Europe, which has trouble in distinguishing all those countries from each other. It is clear that Eurovision matters in those countries, whereas in the west the contest is seen just as a kitschy joke, which can be heard in the western entries which are usually tainted by insincerity and ironic overtones.

Errr... I guess you missed this year's song from Ukraine, and last year's track "We Are The Winners" from Lithuania? - I cannot speak for Finland, but the Netherlands takes the contest serious and usually sends good songs, by serious artists. For instance, try the brilliant "Out On My Own" by Michelle, in 2001. Probably my favourite Dutch entry ever, but it flopped.

Naturally east European countries benefit from the current voting system, but the fact that Finland won and Sweden was #5 last year shows that it's possible for other countries to do well also.

I doubt it. And I certainly wouldn't mention the Finland-masks-show as an example here. Lordi didn't win the contest because their song is sood, or because Finland took it so seriously. Actually, the more you think of it, it was some kind of desperate attempt after years and years of being very unsuccessful. An attempt that worked. But I don't want Eurovision to be a freak show.

Your football analogy is not valid either. Most football or ice hockey fans don't care whether their team is number #7 or #16. Or even #2. Last weekend Finland didn't win silver in the Ice Hockey Word Championships, we just lost the final to Canada – on Sunday nobody was dancing on the streets. All sports fans want their team to win, everything else is a let-down. And football is not fair either: there's a considerable amount of luck plus questionable referee decisions (due to the fact of the ref's being human) involved in every single football game.

I made the football competition comparison to point out that the position after 34 matches DOES in fact matter. For instance, certain teams qualify for European football (see the Top 10 songs qualifying for next year's Eurovision final), and other teams are relegated. A referee can make mistakes, but is neutral. A good referee doesn't influence the match, or give advantage to one team all the time, because Amsterdam or Helsinki is a city he likes more than Stockholm or Berlin.

As for the 'kill yourself or get over it' comment: I already got over it. I read the results of the semi-final and the final only on Teletext. And this was only a shocking confirmation of what already was obvious: Eastern Europe kidnapped Eurovision. That's why I think the Netherland should stop participating, spend lots of money on it.

[belated]

Lordi didn't win the contest because their song is good, or because Finland took it so seriously.

Could you define what is a good song? Is it the chord structure, singer voice, humour, pyrotechnics, emotions, looks, message, sound, credibility, or anything else? When was last time a 'good song' won the contest? This contest is just to present something from your country and make it collect as much votes as it can. I'm sure Lordi's song has sold more than any other song from last year's contest. That sure makes it a good song when putting all in order by sales. It's not about best song or best composion anymore. They removed the required orchestra and replaced it with tapes and fireworks.

[belated]

Giving West the power, keeping all the songs in contest, but only counting the votes of; Andorra, Austria, Belgia, Cyprus, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Iceland, Ireland, Israel, Malta, Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Spain, Sweden, Swiss and UK, we'd get more or less this:

Semi:
1. Serbia
2. Hungary
3. Turkey
4. Lithuania
5. Bulgaria
--

Final:
1. Serbia
2. Turkey
3. Ukraine
4. Hungary
5. Russia
--

We'll have to start making better songs here in west.

[Fugitive1979]

We'll have to start making better songs here in west.

And sort the voting system out.