History lesson for america!

[Technotrancemix]

Religion = Politics = War = Bollox = Boredom = God knows what else...

I'm very surprised this thread is still continuing. This is getting very boring. Maybe I should adopt the idea of ignoring socials between fans from now...

In fact I will! Adios!

[glennjridge]

describing something as "boring" on the internet is passe. not only that it never makes any kind of sense.

its like seeing a raging fire and deeming it boring. the word just doesnt apply in the context.

this thread could fizzle out today, but dropping in and deeming politics/religion boring when you know yourself your never going to make offtopic stuff unpopular could however, be called,.......

[Undertaker]

Religion = Politics = War = Bollox = Boredom = God knows what else...

I'm very surprised this thread is still continuing. This is getting very boring. Maybe I should adopt the idea of ignoring socials between fans from now...

In fact I will! Adios!

Thats a bonus. Nobody likes you anyway.

[Danny C]

Religion = Politics = War = Bollox = Boredom = God knows what else...

I'm very surprised this thread is still continuing. This is getting very boring. Maybe I should adopt the idea of ignoring socials between fans from now...

In fact I will! Adios!

F*ck off.

[Syncratic]

Religion = Politics = War = Bollox = Boredom = God knows what else...

I'm very surprised this thread is still continuing. This is getting very boring. Maybe I should adopt the idea of ignoring socials between fans from now...

In fact I will! Adios!

Thats a bonus. Nobody likes you anyway.

True.

[Syncratic]

yeah the view of the european college campus of the united states. your dreamin.get the united nations to sanction the united states or threaten us with war for our supposd war crimes and go on record, until then thats just the faux "I'm a protester I am I really am!" man child view of what the US has done thru history.

its pretty much exclusively an internet political forumviewpoint or anti-US street protest thing and as such can be totally discarded as it goes no further.

nobody supports Iran apparently,yet they will argue for the sake of arguing against the power that is trying to stop it. cripes sake even france is falling in line on this issue.

sheesh,when something like that happens your just plain out of excuses.

I agree with proportinate intervention when it's necessary, take the Burma issue or Lebanon issues last year. Because people are opposed to 'illegal'wars does not follow that they are faux war protesters. Does it? But because there's no profit to be had then everyone turns a blind eye.

As for US war crimes and British war crimes they are always whitewashed with redtape. You know that as well as I do. The US fail to recognise the Geneva convention anyway so that won't do any good to take them to task. There's a childlike failiure to engage with the darker issues.Again, you know this.

But this does not mean that the US policy is above the law. If you're in cloud cuckoo land where you actually believe the US has NEVER committed war crimes, has NEVER installed a puppet government, NEVER sold arms to the Arabs, NEVER armed Israel, NEVER murdered innocent civillians then I'd understand your motivation. After all if you only ever watch Fox news and read Ann Coulter then I can understand your skewed ideas.

I repeat people ARE against Iran but you still have to question the hypocrisy of the nuclear armed nations who want to stop them. I'm sure the US and Britain would not take kindly to Iranian inspectors demmanding that we desist our nuclear arms.

France will be 'falling in line' as you put it, as if they are naughty schoolboys who need the guidance of the mighty US, but at the moment Sarkosi is no more than a Tony Blair wannabe. So that isn't surprising.

You must stop making excuses, Captain America.

[pet shop boy]

There is no "Using Force" In Islam In Quran and The Prophet's words...

What about the line that says fight those of the unbelievers?

which line are you talking about?

http://www.islamreview.com/articles/jih ... oran.shtml
Is that what Islam says?

[glennjridge]

you mentioned alot of things the US supposedly does.ie,sell arms,murder civilians etc etc, what you are trying to do is draw a parallel to what we do and the targets of the US policy do.

anotherwords, your trying to show the US thru history is no better than the people it takes down, and has no right to dictate policy to others.

the weakness in your argument is summed up when you say imagine how the US and britain would be if the Iranians dictated they wanted to inspect the US or British nuclear sites.

thats where you lost it. the world ISNT edgy because the Israeli have nukes, or the US/britain have nukes. the US doesnt get judgements against it for purposely murdering civilians or selling arms to the Israeli,the US isnt taken to task legally while others are santioned by the UN or deemed terrorist nations or tyrants.

its because the adults at play high up in the global machinery know the distinction.
they "get it" in the long term scheme of what US policy is trying to do no matter if its succesful or not.they know the difference.

you dont.

who cares right? it goes no farther than internet forums college campuses, and protest signs.

[gregf]

Good writing Syncratic.

Something I do lately, instead of arguing issues, which always bogs down,
is to look instead at people's motivation, their red buttons, what winds us up.

For me it is hypocrisy and double standards by our leaders. Our Neo-conservative
government is wasting money, running up inflation, yet arrogantly claims to be the
best economic managers. Arrgh.

Some folk, like me are passionate about the system being fair. The boss cannot make
a rule then, break it.

International law says that one UN member state may not invade another, without UN sanction.
Oh the irony of US telling Turkey not to invade Kurdish Iraq.

And I have a problem with the US and Israel telling Iran they can not have nuclear weapons.
Not only has the Bush administration slowed nuclear disarmament but
are strongly pushing nuclear energy to third world countries.
This MUST weaken the argument against Iran's program.

I am scared by Iran's program. But how can we now accuse them "You are making
weapons of mass destruction". The West must become the good guys, regaining the
moral high ground, which has been in decline since WW2, before telling others what to do.

[glennjridge]

like the syncratics, you've become so hung up,self rightious on the backgrounds of the US or other western powers that target tyrants and terrorist mindsets thru history, your moral bar lowered so far,

that as long as the threat centers on"the others" ie jews in Israel,your're cavalier about the words of a Irans leader who said while trying to gain nukes it wants to wipe Israel off the map, and that it doesnt have a homosexual problem, yet critical about the US that takes down tyrants in history. thats how far you've gone.

I know you've cultivated this persona of being nice and civilized, but when you are civilized and yet your arguement benfits the uncivilized you lose moral highground whatever your view is on the US.

in the long run,you'll get the kind of world you tolerate.

[gregf]

Glenn,

I like to encourage new participants who speak about issues without insult.
So that is why I applauded Syncratic.

I am interested in the .. values people are arguing from and try to avoid some
detail as it bogs down. Oh well, here goes.

I would agree with much if not all, you would say re. Iran, because it is true.
Ahmadinejad is an Islamic Fascist.

But that is not taking sides. I will criticise the West or Israel for it's mistake as well
when it is justified. So I will agree with you or not depending on the issue.

I believe in learning from mistakes. The facts are the US has installed more tyrants then deposed.
If we in the West delude our selves, we loose. If we are the bad guys, we loose.

Otherwise, nothing I said was a criticism of you, so apologies if it reads that way.

[Deschanel]

>in the long run,you'll get the kind of world you tolerate.<

Nice empty macho threat Glenn. What sort of world will you get? Tough guy.

Whether mistranslated or not: so the Iranian prez once said Israel should be wiped off the map, did he?

So the US should start a THIRD simultaneous WAR in the Middle East? Over WORDS? Or in Bush's speech, mere "knowledge" of how to build a weapon.

So, Tough Guy- why the hell aren't you enlisted yet to go kick Iran's ass? You seem ready for other people to do it, never mind the cost to THEIR bodies and souls. You should do it Glenn.
They'll take you.

Like millions elsewhere, thousands of Iranians marched in candlelit vigils in sympathy with America after 9/11. This is lost on certain people: despite being told constantly that Iran is Our Mortal Enemy, it's a demonstrably overblown, overhyped threat to keep the war machine in motion. We created chaos and hell on Earth in Iraq, now childishly are angry at Iran because they're damned happy we removed their mortal enemy and empowered them in the region. Any iranian involvement in Iraq's carnage is a drop in the bucket during a rainstorm.

Greg, don't apologize for offending Glenn's delicate, fragile sensibilities. While you're both mangling what "fascism" actually means out of recognition, stop saying you're sorry .
Stand up for yourself, you're quite accurate. And way too nice. Ugh.

[glennjridge]

hey I shouldnt care deschanel. I'm straight,I'm a "fellow believer of the book", I'm a golden boy. I've got a get out of jail free card.I've got no worrys about being persecuted for my lifestyle anywhere.

you only care about the rights in your own little habitat. as long as your disco ball at seedy bars is spinning in your small little world, screw em all in other areas.

I can be free to live my lifestyle where I want in the east,in safety.

you cant,and never will. its as simple as that. its because intolerance,and statements against jews/gays is downgraded and given leeway and isnt condemened and fought across the boards.only in your own little habitat.

[glennjridge]

Glenn,

I believe in learning from mistakes. The facts are the US has installed more tyrants then deposed.
If we in the West delude our selves, we loose. If we are the bad guys, we loose.

Otherwise, nothing I said was a criticism of you, so apologies if it reads that way.

I dont take anything personally. all I have to say, is if this worlds moral bar has gone so low as that a leader of a country trying to gain nuclear weapons while saying it wants to wipe another off the map and that it doesnt have a homosexual problem isnt something that should be nipped in the bud, then hey,dont bother about civil rights because you 've said intolerance is fine as long as for now, its geographic positioning is far away.

[gregf]

I dont take anything personally. all I have to say, is if this worlds moral bar has gone so low as that a leader of a country trying to gain nuclear weapons while saying it wants to wipe another off the map and that it doesnt have a homosexual problem isnt something that should be nipped in the bud, then hey,dont bother about civil rights because you 've said intolerance is fine as long as for now, its geographic positioning is far away.

My first comment may have been ambiguous ; my second was not.
I agree about Iran. And I have never said intolerance is fine.

I have the right to criticise intolerance, torture, abuse of human rights, aggression, nuclear proliferation,
kidnapping and stupidity where ever, repeat where ever, I see it.

And those in the West who do these things, justify them, or turn a blind eye, are bringing down us all.
Why cant you see that ?