.

[Your Funny Uncle]

Whatever. You'll get no rise from me, Glenny boy. Goodnight.

[glennjridge]

theres was no rise about it. when you dont have a tolerance for others viewpoints,the representation of that is there is anger because someones viewpoint doesnt match yours.

granted this is a message board so its technically the walt disney version of intolerance, but who you are on the net generally is a good representation of how you present yourself as you meet people with views not your own in reallife.

goodnight.

[Your Funny Uncle]

Patiently trying to get your point across while the person you're talking to just goes off at wilder and wilder tangents is intolerant? I was talking about the Pope's view on contraception and their effect on overpopulation and yet you managed to get to HIV being god's punishment for promiscuity and THEN to meteors hitting the earth due to God's wrath! Can't you see how moving the goalposts of the conversation so wildly as that might try someone's patience?

Glenn, I've always tried to debate reasonably with you because (unlike the likes of alig) you seem like a decent person but it's really tough at times...

[glennjridge]

I'm simply trying to show the gravity of the situation for mankind regarding sex outside marriage.
that its no joke for the pope to counter Gods scriptural view.the reason why the pope will side with the scripture of said religion over todays modus operandi of birth control.

I already know you dont agree . thats fine.

[gregf]

I suppose it all comes down to whether one believes in God.

If God does exist, then Glen's point of view is valid.
If God does not exist, mankind must use rational thought to craft a moral guide.

But Glen you are saying that women and girls forced into marriage (or not)
must die of AIDS and give birth to children with AIDS and that this
meets the approval of God.

We know that people who thought like this were in Bush's cabinet and
were seeking war with the Muslims to bring about the second coming
of Jesus Christ, to force the coming of "the end of times" as described
in the bible.

Is it any wonder the evangelical Christian right in America, scares us
as much as the Muslims, and the rest of us don't see much difference.

[Your Funny Uncle]

Here's the thing, though, Glenn. There are many different interpretations of scripture. This is why there are many different versions of Christianity.

As Greg pointed out in a previous post, Catholicism isn't a fundamentalist version of Christianity and if we look at the Catholic church over the last few centuries we can see that it no longer takes a literalistic view of all scripture. After initially putting the likes of Galileo under house arrest for suggesting that the earth moved round the sun they now accept that it does. Similarly they were opposed to evolution but now accept it. Up until just a few centuries ago you had institutions like the inquisition and the burning of witches and heretics but no more.

Catholic dogma can be and has been changed to suit the world around it, so the argument that the pope is just doing what god told him is a very shaky one.

[gregf]

For the record, there is a terrible problem in the Catholic church with sexual abuse
of children and covering it up. Other problems too.

Trusting uncritically, another human's instructions of "what God wants" is the problem.

[Danny C]

Trusting uncritically, another human's instructions of "what God wants" is the problem.

Anyone who trusts what a celibate man has to say about sex is a total cretin.

[Flaffer]

thats always been my argument, taking the opinions of celibate priests on sexual matters is like taking your car to the florists for an MOT

[glennjridge]

Here's the thing, though, Glenn. There are many different interpretations of scripture. This is why there are many different versions of Christianity.

Catholic dogma can be and has been changed to suit the world around it, so the argument that the pope is just doing what god told him is a very shaky one.

be that as it may,its the popes job is to be the one who dictates what is the policy of the church. if he's wrong,right, fallible ,infallible,in step with scripture or not,I have no idea. but that is each popes job.

I have no idea if there was ever an official church policy on evolution or witch burning,
but I as a regular guy cant possibly see how a pope can say that its in step with the creator that birth control is church policy over marriage or chastity, fidelity in marriage or
anti-poverty/education efforts. to advocate both would cancel one another out.

[Your Funny Uncle]

be that as it may,its the popes job is to be the one who dictates what is the policy of the church. if he's wrong,right, fallible ,infallible,in step with scripture or not,I have no idea. but that is each popes job.

I'm pleased to say that here we are in complete agreement.

I have no idea if there was ever an official church policy on evolution or witch burning,
but I as a regular guy cant possibly see how a pope can say that its in step with the creator that birth control is church policy over marriage or chastity, fidelity in marriage or
anti-poverty/education efforts. to advocate both would cancel one another out.

That's a false dichotomy. What's wrong with advocating birth control WITHIN a happy marriage? What's wrong with saying "don't have sex before marriage and don't sleep around, but when you ARE married, you should try to limit the number of kids you have using birth control in order to increase the quality of life of your family?" I really can't see the problem. Surely if god had meant us to only have sex when we wanted to make kids he'd have made it a simple action that worked every time and he wouldn't have made it so amazingly pleasurable!

[Patrick Bateman]

Glenn no doubt practises the rhythm method.

[glennjridge]

I have had a lifetime of pre marital sex with condoms and will be having sex when I get married and will be using birth control.

but you are dealing with an institution whose views while terribly outdated in the modern day,IMO are in theory correct. as far as birth control during marriage you can bet I will be using it to avoid having more children until we plan them,but the churches view once again, while outdated in our culture is correct as regardless of how pleasurable sex is, the unintended consequences are still our fault.

so the church wont advocate sex purely for pleasure without consequences.

[bohemians.]

.

[gregf]

Scientology has big problems with the sexual abuse of children by senior
member of that "church". The children get told they are at fault because
they have done wrong in their past lives. People in the church who try
to protect their children have their lives destroyed and families are broken up.

The ethics within that organisation are 100 times worse than the Catholic Church.

Yet film stars preach Scientology, new victims are brought in every day, governments
are afraid of tackling the issue, because it is a "church".

So where is the thread on Scientology ?

All religion and superstition is wrong. Teach your children to think rationally
and accept nothing but evidence. Teach your children well.