Ronald Reagan was not a good man.

[gregf]

the slitting babies throats and rape thing is all from your susceptable indoctrinated mind.

My wording is not a quote, but those instructions were actually written in the
training manuals that the CIA gave to the Contra's fighting the democratically
elected government in Nicaragua.

The Contra's were the x-National Guard of general Somoza the US backed dictator
that was defeated in the civil war. They were notorious for using torture. Reagen
called them "heroes, equivalent to the Americans who fought the War of Independance".

The Regan government sold weapons to the Iranians and used the money to fund the Contra's.
The deal was done through and with the approval of Israel. Let me repeat that.

The Reagen government sold weapons to the Ayatollahs's government in Iran. The money was
used by the US government to fund terrorism. The deal was done though Israel and with
the approval of the Israeli government. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran-Contra_affair

Americas Watch - which subsequently became part of Human Rights Watch - stated that

"the Contras systematically engage in violent abuses... so prevalent that these
may be said to be their principal means of waging war." It accused the Contras of:

* targeting health care clinics and health care workers for assassination.
* kidnapping civilians.
* torturing civilians.
* executing civilians, including children, who were captured in combat.
* raping women.
* indiscriminately attacking civilians and civilian houses.
* seizing civilian property.
* burning civilian houses in captured towns

Iran-Contra: White House e-mail". CNN. 2008-06-07.

The US was also involved in the drugs trade, selling cocaine to Americans to fund the Contra's.
The US has sold drugs to pay for wars before and since. The secret war in Laos and Cambodia
during the Vietnam war was paid for by US drug trade. The Reagen government also started
the drug trade in Afghanistan and central Asia to pay for the war in Afghanistan.

U.S. supported dictators have run most middle eastern countries using torture
for decades. This leads young Muslims to believe their countries can only be free
after America is defeated. It is a major cause of the Muslim-Western conflict.
Religion is not the cause of the Muslim-Western conflict. Oil is.

The neo-conservatives still control the Republican party, have never expressed
regret for what they did in the 1950's,60s,70s,80s, and will be elected to power again.

They're lying to you Glen. They have been lying to you for decades.

[York Minster]

The neo-conservatives still control the Republican party, have never expressed
regret for what they did in the 1950's,60s,70s,80s, and will be elected to power again.

Are they still lying about what William Walker did in Nicaragua in the 1850s?

[glennjridge]

I dont believe a word about what you heard was written in CIA training documents.

thats just plain retarded the idea you even think that a clandestine agency like the CIA would have a directive ordering the slitting of babies throats.... that come from the top brass discussed in some kind of boardroom meeting with other top brass.... print it out on a document and circulate it around like a "slitting babies throats for dummies" how to manual.

your the type that goes to these jackassed sites on the web, and because you are so anti-american and anti-jew, your mind is open to this baby slitting policy.you want to believe it no different than the palestinians who believed that people living in Israel use the blood from babys to make pastry.

thats on the web also.

[whateverman42]

Well, once you realize the Warren Commission insults the intelligence of a child its hard to believe Americans are in control of their government. Its more common sense. In 2004 both candidates came from the same ultra-selective and ultra-secretive secret society. Yep, anyone can become president.

Conspiracy conspiracy conspriacy. Yet look at your weak arguments you continue to make.

A commission insulted your intelligence? SHOCK! How about the Meese commission during the Reagan years? Not too good itself, yet, I don't use it to show that everyone is a puppet of some super rich controllers. Nope, nothing more than various interest groups, feminists, moral majority folk, and various social constructions. I don't deny that the 2004 candidates were horrible choices and have that background, and that the primary system and the conventions are highly flawed. But sometimes we get dark horses (Harding), sometimes we get country boys who really weren't ambitious to be president (Coolidge as Hardings vice). Sometimes we get a black man running against a women? No, not anyone can be president obviously not. I sure can't, I've said to much about incest. But you make no real argument at all, just a rant and an obsession. Why not look to more mundane facts of social institutions to see how power works? I don't think you could handle reading a reasonable work of sociology on power structure in America, you'd be too busy having wet dreams about conspiracy nonsense. Seriously, do you masturbate while thinking about this stuff?

When did you become such an asshole? Sometime in between your useless poll-making and becoming a forum pariah? Lay off man, you asked for opinions, I gave one.

[gregf]

Hey guys.

Let's take it easy. If we make personal attacks, we will loose this place to
talk and exchange ideas. Practice your debating skills, not insults.

[York Minster]

When did you become such an asshole? Sometime in between your useless poll-making and becoming a forum pariah? Lay off man, you asked for opinions, I gave one.

I see you've completely run out of argument. Don't red herring me away from your lack of debating skill on this topic by bringing up my poll making or forum popularity. You'll notice I never make personal attacks against you, as you do me, only an attack on your horrible arguments.

[whateverman42]

I don't think you could handle reading a reasonable work of sociology on power structure in America, you'd be too busy having wet dreams about conspiracy nonsense. Seriously, do you masturbate while thinking about this stuff?

You're right, great attack solely on my arguments.

But what skill do you have that I don't? Is moderation a skill? Because the elites do have their tentacles out, but only to an extent. Isn't that right? They would never outright kill thousands of people for more control, but they might allow cut corners which kill hundreds as as a negative consequence to save money. Right? Of course, because its reasonable. No sane person would think the super wealthy would actively hurt us. Apologies, I'll forget the statements by David Rockefeller and Ted Turner on population control. Corruption has limits.

[gregf]

...your the type that goes to these jackassed sites on the web, and because you are so anti-american and anti-jew,

No. I know about these events because I lived through it. There was no Internet in
those days. These events were widely reported in reliable media at the time. I met
the girl who was burned alive. I know people from Chile who had friends tortured
and killed by Pinochet who was installed by Nixon.

I am not anti American or anti Jewish. I want America to be a country that works
for the good of mankind. I want America to be against torture and dictators, to
be a champion of human rights, not middle Eastern despots. I believe the West's
greatest strength is when we do the right thing, not evil.

We can only solve problems when we admit our mistakes.
Both as individuals and as nations.

[York Minster]

I know people from Chile who had friends tortured
and killed by Pinochet who was installed by Nixon.

A good book I've read of interest may be "The Murder of Allende and the end of the Shilean way to socialism" by sandford

[glennjridge]

...your the type that goes to these jackassed sites on the web, and because you are so anti-american and anti-jew,

No. I know about these events because I lived through it. There was no Internet in
those days. These events were widely reported in reliable media at the time. I met
the girl who was burned alive. I know people from Chile who had friends tortured
and killed by Pinochet who was installed by Nixon.

you're no truth seeking tribunal. you do what practically everyone does including me.

you have a political slant,and you cherry pick what you hear about an event and pick what matchs your viewpoint.

so the notion you heard a story about some girl who got burned means nothing to me anymore than when I hear some story where an Iraqi person says the US invading them was a bad thing and another saying it was a good thing.

which account would I pick do you think and run with? right. thats exactly what you do.we cherry pick according to our personal views.

[York Minster]

you're no truth seeking tribunal. you do what practically everyone does including me.

you have a political slant,and you cherry pick what you hear about an event and pick what matchs your viewpoint.

so the notion you heard a story about some girl who got burned means nothing to me anymore than when I hear some story where an Iraqi person says the US invading them was a bad thing and another saying it was a good thing.

which account would I pick do you think and run with? right. thats exactly what you do.we cherry pick according to our personal views.

This is all true, but that doesn't mean that some semblance of truth can be deduced. The El Motoze massacres happened in El Salvador, even if president Reagan didn't call them up and tell them to do it, it's still a horrific event, much worse than my polls certainly.

[glennjridge]

that thing you said, "even if Reagan didnt call them up and tell them to do it".
but thats the krux,the whole point.

if you dont have the phone call,you have conjecture. I'm old enough to know people point to
"an account" and go AHA!!. but what do you really know about the account? the account, ie, the people involved themelves probably have their own personal politics. an example would be the people on the flotilla. even though they were busted with knives and clubs, what do you think the wounded ones will say?

the aha is almost usually based on personal politics.

[gregf]

How is your logic different from Holocaust deniers ?

[glennjridge]

people have free will. plenty of people believe in the holocaust figures and some do not.
it doesnt mean anything what I or you or anyone in the general public believes about the holocaust or if ethnic cleansing was going on in bosnia unless a ruling body with authority weighs in on the matter givs a judgement an then sends down a punishment.

which is why, if Israel and the USA are commiting war crimes its up to a ruling body to examine evidence,judge them as such and mete out punishment.
lacking that, its just your conjecture,personal opinion .

[whateverman42]

I don't have a problem with people who question the past. Sure, most Holocaust deniers have something against Jewish people, but some are simply questioning what they've been told. Maybe only a million Jews were killed, who knows? And does it matter whether it was 6 million or a hundred thousand? Does that affect how much we should care?