Track-by-Track: From Please to Nonetheless

[NotInvisible]

Gaga isn't in her imperial phase anymore. How much music history do you know, anyway?

Yes she is.

You... you don't know what an imperial phase is, do you? She's missed the US Top 40 with some of her recent singles.

[Finn]

She also had the number one song for 2025 with Bruno Mars, Die with a Smile, in the Billboard charts, as well as her song abracadabra which landed at #56 in the end of year chart. These songs also did well in other end of year charts. I'd call that pretty successful.

[NotInvisible]

She also had the number one song for 2025 with Bruno Mars, Die with a Smile, in the Billboard charts, as well as her song abracadabra which landed at #56 in the end of year chart. These songs also did well in other end of year charts. I'd call that pretty successful.

No one said she wasn't successful. But she's not in her imperial phase anymore. That's fine, it's not a binary prospect.

[markus]

She also had the number one song for 2025 with Bruno Mars, Die with a Smile, in the Billboard charts, as well as her song abracadabra which landed at #56 in the end of year chart. These songs also did well in other end of year charts. I'd call that pretty successful.

No one said she wasn't successful. But she's not in her imperial phase anymore. That's fine, it's not a binary prospect.

When she does her farewell tour in her 70s, she’ll be able to draw material from between 2007 and 2026: nearly two decades of cultural relevance. You’ll have parents and their kids in the same audience, both having a nostalgic moment. For each generation, she’ll represent what was hot and on the radio when they were living their best years.

PSB were a top-tier brand in exactly that way when I was a kid. By 1999, when I was in my early twenties DJ’ing at house parties, someone would ask, laughing, “Is it those two gay guys—what are they called again?”

You don’t hear that now. Today they’re legends—statesmen, as you’d put it. What happened in the mid-90s feels less like a natural career decline and more like outright sabotage. They were in the gutter for a while, and then somehow managed to climb back out. That’s why this period is such an interesting object of study in hindsight.

[NotInvisible]

When she does her farewell tour in her 70s, she’ll be able to draw material from between 2007 and 2026: nearly two decades of cultural relevance.

Did you attend the Pet Shop Boys' Dreamworld tour? FWIW the last Pet Shop Boys song to hit the Top 40 did so 25 years after their first. You really ought to familiarize yourself with the facts before these hot takes.

Today they’re legends—statesmen, as you’d put it. What happened in the mid-90s feels less like a natural career decline and more like outright sabotage.

Not really. It's the natural arc for most pop groups, but played in slow motion due to their remarkable success. In the mid '90s they had another decade of landing songs in the Top 10, and we only partway through their record of getting 44 songs into the Top 40.

But all of this is a weird non sequitur from the fanciful notion that Lady Gaga is still in her imperial phase (quick reminder that Domino Dancing hitting #7 is what made Neil realize that time was over for them, for context).

[markus]

When she does her farewell tour in her 70s, she’ll be able to draw material from between 2007 and 2026: nearly two decades of cultural relevance.

But all of this is a weird non sequitur from the fanciful notion that Lady Gaga is still in her imperial phase (quick reminder that Domino Dancing hitting #7 is what made Neil realize that time was over for them, for context).

I think that comment says more about Neil’s inner fears at the time — about becoming victims of homophobia — than about what actually happened. Those fears didn’t really materialise then. Domino Dancing pushed Introspective to become their biggest-selling album up to that point.
The video was empowering and rebellious, and the song became their fifth biggest hit. When my friend said that line at the party ten years later, it wasn’t about having a problem with gay artists. It was simply that, by then, they were no longer seen as “cool.”

[NotInvisible]

I think that comment says more about Neil’s inner fears at the time — about becoming victims of homophobia — than about what actually happened. Those fears didn’t really materialise then.

Neil didn't fear that at the time - where did you pick that one up?

When my friend said that line at the party ten years later, it wasn’t about having a problem with gay artists. It was simply that, by then, they were no longer seen as “cool.”

And yet you claimed If Love Was All was career suicide. Pick a lane, my guy.

[markus]

I think that comment says more about Neil’s inner fears at the time — about becoming victims of homophobia — than about what actually happened. Those fears didn’t really materialise then.

Neil didn't fear that at the time - where did you pick that one up?

When my friend said that line at the party ten years later, it wasn’t about having a problem with gay artists. It was simply that, by then, they were no longer seen as “cool.”

And yet you claimed If Love Was All was career suicide. Pick a lane, my guy.

Domino Dancing was rock ’n’ roll in spirit. All of their truly successful tracks share that same energy: youthful, empowering, forward-moving — that’s the rock-and-roll core, even in a pop context.
An artist needs to check their rock-god status every now and then. If they don’t, they become soft — or worse, the party pooper.
Which pretty much says everything that needs to be said about If Love Were All.

Their output started to be more about pleasing themselves than about their career.

[Patrick Bateman]

Track 83: Absolutely Fabulous

Chronology: Very, Further Listening, Track 12

We're kind of there already, so without further ado...

The Rubicon of PSB releases. Once they crossed this, quality control no longer mattered and they could do what they liked. That's obviously liberating and is arguably the reason they're still around today but it also spelt the end of the perfection of the early years.

Here's an interview in which Neil announces what they're doing next: https://youtu.be/wIRfFYZdCVY?si=mtd5tNtKPcnchNkC

Yes, our next single is a comedy record with Jennifer Saunders and Joanna Lumley, all perfectly normal for the group who brought you Being Boring.

So why did they release it? Hubris? Neil's love for name-dropping his friends from the Groucho? Chris's grief (and lackadaisical attitude to promotion right through Bilingual)?

In an alternative universe in which they split up during the Nightlife tour, this is the death knell. If you release this and Disco 2, then don't be surprised when your gigs are half-empty.

In some ways, I wish they had done that. The original version of the Pet Shop Boys was far cooler and appealing in its otherness. This version was too clubbable, going round Chris Evans's house to record crappy b-sides and releasing self-indulgent cover versions with their artist friend.

The highly successful version of the Pet Shop Boys that exists now, touring its greatest hits in perpetuity is a product of Absolutely Fabulous. The thigh-slapping, the rehearsed anecdotes, the omnipresent David Walliams. It's the bloody Pet Shop Boys, sweetie.

[telys]

Track 83: Absolutely Fabulous

Chronology: Very, Further Listening, Track 12

We're kind of there already, so without further ado...

The Rubicon of PSB releases. Once they crossed this, quality control no longer mattered and they could do what they liked. That's obviously liberating and is arguably the reason they're still around today but it also spelt the end of the perfection of the early years.

Here's an interview in which Neil announces what they're doing next: https://youtu.be/wIRfFYZdCVY?si=mtd5tNtKPcnchNkC

Yes, our next single is a comedy record with Jennifer Saunders and Joanna Lumley, all perfectly normal for the group who brought you Being Boring.

So why did they release it? Hubris? Neil's love for name-dropping his friends from the Groucho? Chris's grief (and lackadaisical attitude to promotion right through Bilingual)?

In an alternative universe in which they split up during the Nightlife tour, this is the death knell. If you release this and Disco 2, then don't be surprised when your gigs are half-empty.

In some ways, I wish they had done that. The original version of the Pet Shop Boys was far cooler and appealing in its otherness. This version was too clubbable, going round Chris Evans's house to record crappy b-sides and releasing self-indulgent cover versions with their artist friend.

The highly successful version of the Pet Shop Boys that exists now, touring its greatest hits in perpetuity is a product of Absolutely Fabulous. The thigh-slapping, the rehearsed anecdotes, the omnipresent David Walliams. It's the bloody Pet Shop Boys, sweetie.

Hm, interesting take. I've always considered Paninaro '95 being the sharkjumping moment and I've always liked Ab-Fab but I kind of agree with your view. They had a choice back in '94. Doing things like this or releasing a fleshed out Relentless with another couple of great singles followed by "Live in Rio" record (and then Alternative and Hallo Spaceboy).
On the other hand Bilingual was also successful. It's not until Nightlife it goes downhill.

And tbh their own remix of Ab-Fab should be considered a track on its own, it's that much different.

[Lleonard Pler]

In Spain Absolutely Fabulous wasn't famous, so to these ears this track sounds just dull and silly. Camp in the wrong way. I think they thought it was funnier than it really is, like laughing at your own joke. Where Very becomes Toomuch.

Their Rubicon indeed. I'm even surprised they like to consider a PSB track, tbh.

[NotInvisible]

Domino Dancing was rock ’n’ roll in spirit. All of their truly successful tracks share that same energy: youthful, empowering, forward-moving — that’s the rock-and-roll core, even in a pop context.
An artist needs to check their rock-god status every now and then. If they don’t, they become soft — or worse, the party pooper.
Which pretty much says everything that needs to be said about If Love Were All.

Is this you admitting you made up the thing about Neil fretting about a homophobic attack re: the Domino Dancing release?

Their output started to be more about pleasing themselves than about their career.

It seems to have worked out pretty well for them - they're still around, and still putting out Top 5 albums. Not many of their contemporaries can make the same claim.

[NotInvisible]

In an alternative universe in which they split up during the Nightlife tour, this is the death knell. If you release this and Disco 2, then don't be surprised when your gigs are half-empty.

This is a bit of revisionist history, really. Your personal reaction was obviously not the general public's, which continued to push Pet Shop Boys singles into the Top 10 not only here but on the follow-up album. Disco 2, Alternative and Bilingual hit #6, #2 and #4 in the album charts. Absolutely fabulous wasn't actually a problem in the real world, although I agree it was no King's Cross in terms of music.

The highly successful version of the Pet Shop Boys that exists now, touring its greatest hits in perpetuity is a product of Absolutely Fabulous. The thigh-slapping, the rehearsed anecdotes, the omnipresent David Walliams. It's the bloody Pet Shop Boys, sweetie.

Absolutely Fabulous comes from the same strain of Pet Shop Boys that gave us Where the Streets Have No Name, Relentless and Liza doing high-energy show tunes. It's always been there. It's in their movie, it's in the camp of It's a Sin, it's in the videos for What Have I Done to Deserve This? and Heart. It's Blackpool.

[markus]

Domino Dancing was rock ’n’ roll in spirit. All of their truly successful tracks share that same energy: youthful, empowering, forward-moving — that’s the rock-and-roll core, even in a pop context.
An artist needs to check their rock-god status every now and then. If they don’t, they become soft — or worse, the party pooper.
Which pretty much says everything that needs to be said about If Love Were All.

Is this you admitting you made up the thing about Neil fretting about a homophobic attack re: the Domino Dancing release?

No. I’m talking about a classic cry-wolf move — using homophobia as a convenient excuse when nothing like that actually happened. I’ve never seen an interview where Domino Dancing is credited for being the success it really was. Instead, the story is always that America was “too homophobic” to deal with them quietly coming out at the time.
Fans repeat the same idea: they look only at chart positions, ignore everything else, and call it proof that being openly gay always leads to decline. As if Culture Club never existed.

[Drico One]

Tracks 84 and 85: Euroboy and Some Speculation

Chronology: Very, Further Listening, Tracks 13 and 14

As the thread owner, I'm going to take a liberty now and combine these two tracks - mainly because they were on the same single release and because they are, basically, two backing tracks in search of a song.

I consider both Relentless omissions. One is muscular and driving, the other mysterious and sinister. I found both very slight at the time - again, the lack of an actual song being the limiting factor for me, though Some Speculation is at least intriguing. They feel like leftovers, which they likely were. But they're quality leftovers. Together, they are satisfyingly seedy.

Drico.