Our dreams for Obscure after the 5 shows at EB

[Whosematchesarethose]

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[Whosematchesarethose]

Are you genuinely suggesting they haven't practised the songs thoroughly before the first full band rehearsal?

No, I'm suggesting they got paid to learn them.

The easiest way to tell your math is off is to observe that virtually no one makes this sort of a show a staple, which would obviously be the case if it was easy money. The other notable stumbling block is that scaling these numbers to arenas results in figures far higher than we know them to be. I'm sure they didn't lose money on the Obscure shows, but neither of them are buying a sports car off the back of it.

Agree with this, which is why another run in Europe is probable

[markreed]

Are you genuinely suggesting they haven't practised the songs thoroughly before the first full band rehearsal?

No, I'm suggesting they got paid to learn them.

The easiest way to tell your math is off is to observe that virtually no one makes this sort of a show a staple, which would obviously be the case if it was easy money. The other notable stumbling block is that scaling these numbers to arenas results in figures far higher than we know them to be. I'm sure they didn't lose money on the Obscure shows, but neither of them are buying a sports car off the back of it.

Sure they got paid to learn them, and likely got sent the stems recreated by Pete G so they could then play and learn their parts in isolation and play along so by the time the full live band got to the studio they probably had almost all of the 35 songs match ready. So in terms of full band rehearsals 10 days is generous.

You seem to think the only thing that matters is that bands can make money and thus, that's the only reason any band does anything. Scaling these numbers to arenas overlooks the costs of staging the video, props, a larger band, bigger crew, live AV and similar which is not the case for Obscure which is a compact show with no video, props, transportation costs, accommodation, visas, etc. Dreamworld costs a lot more per show than Obscure.

In 2014, the band were paid around $350k for a festival tent headline slot.

They don't need to rent equipment etc., and likely have full ownership of all their equipment - the costs as such for Obscure would be time, and we know Pete was working on days off during the Dreamworld dates to ensure the source files would play on the Logic 11/12 platform and make the pre-Logic 7 files compatible with the current version - I think he has access to every song the band have played live or recorded since he first started working with them in around 1993, so there's very little he hasn't got. Effectively all Obscure does is scale down the Dreamworld production and change the songs. And many of those songs have been played since 2009, so are not complete from-the-ground rebuilds, but translations from the 2009 set up to the 2026 equipment.

In addition, even if the venue took its standard 20% of merch gross, the profit ratio on a shirt is normally a minimum of £16-18, profit on a show poster probably £12-15, profit on the books like around £12-15 (Volume) and £4-5 (Lyrics), and they sold thousands of shirts, hundreds of posters, and hundreds of books. Alongside gross ticket sales of £750k, which they would get likely circa £400k of.

The whole reason Dreamworld has run so long is because the marginal cost (i.e. day to day running costs) are low compared to revenue, and the upfront investment of staging the show was recouped very early in the touring cycle. But again, and to be clear, if money was all they were interested in, they'd tour 10 months a year. And it isn't.

They probably aren't buying sports cars full stop, but the shows will have turned a decent six figure profit over the residency.

[NotInvisible]

You seem to think the only thing that matters is that bands can make money and thus, that's the only reason any band does anything.

No, and this is such a straw man that it's evident you know your ballpark math is baseless. These shows aren't as lucrative as you seem to think, and that's plainly obvious.

[markreed]

You seem to think the only thing that matters is that bands can make money and thus, that's the only reason any band does anything.

No, and this is such a straw man that it's evident you know your ballpark math is baseless. These shows aren't as lucrative as you seem to think, and that's plainly obvious.

It isn't ballpark math - if any business can't make a profit on selling £750k of tickets and associated merch for a 5 night run with no AV staging, they're not efficient at all. I doubt you know the average manufacture costs for large run T's/posters, publisher discounts for publications to the author, venue hire, band member or crew costs for staging live events or marginal per day costs of adding extra shows : whereas that is my actual job.

[NotInvisible]

It isn't ballpark math

Of course it is. And again the proof is in the pudding - nobody makes a career out of this, whereas under your model any band with a cult following is guaranteed millions.

[Morse]

Are you genuinely suggesting they haven't practised the songs thoroughly before the first full band rehearsal?

No, I'm suggesting they got paid to learn them.

The easiest way to tell your math is off is to observe that virtually no one makes this sort of a show a staple, which would obviously be the case if it was easy money. The other notable stumbling block is that scaling these numbers to arenas results in figures far higher than we know them to be. I'm sure they didn't lose money on the Obscure shows, but neither of them are buying a sports car off the back of it.

The whole reason Dreamworld has run so long is because the marginal cost (i.e. day to day running costs) are low compared to revenue, and the upfront investment of staging the show was recouped very early in the touring cycle. But again, and to be clear, if money was all they were interested in, they'd tour 10 months a year. And it isn't.

Actually, the reason the Dreamworld tour has run so long is more likely because it's a global farewell tour, rather than it being exclusively about marginal cost. Pet Shop Boys have never toured one show for 4 years...logically, they're only going to do that if it's going to be their last global stage hurrah.

[Sandy Shaw]

You seem to think the only thing that matters is that bands can make money and thus, that's the only reason any band does anything.

No, and this is such a straw man that it's evident you know your ballpark math is baseless. These shows aren't as lucrative as you seem to think, and that's plainly obvious.

It isn't ballpark math - if any business can't make a profit on selling £750k of tickets and associated merch for a 5 night run with no AV staging, they're not efficient at all. I doubt you know the average manufacture costs for large run T's/posters, publisher discounts for publications to the author, venue hire, band member or crew costs for staging live events or marginal per day costs of adding extra shows : whereas that is my actual job.

I've lost track of whether you're factoring one charity night in...

[Pod]

I’m unsure if they’ll do it again, they admit they lose money on it in annually.

[NotInvisible]

Annually just arrived here, and we can stick a fork in the question of Obscure budgeting.

Chris Heath: "To prepare for these shows, a very substantial amount of rehearsal will be required - only a handful of the chosen songs have even been played in concert before."

Neil Tennant: "The shows are losing money, and we're giving ourselves an enormous amount of work to sell copies of a book we also won't make any money out of, but we're doing it because we want to do it."

There we have it.

[Tentenlad]

PSB could have done the Obscure shows in a bigger venue to make money? I would think most acts only charge around £30 for a show in the electric ballroom so they can’t have lost that much?

As for what’s next … A Please / Actually full album show, er please.

[leesmapman]

PSB could have done the Obscure shows in a bigger venue to make money? I would think most acts only charge around £30 for a show in the electric ballroom so they can’t have lost that much?

As for what’s next … A Please / Actually full album show, er please.

You have to sell out the bigger venues too (which I'm sure would happen), and maybe they really wanted to play there, since it's in Camden, their history, etc.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-A528B met Tapatalk

[minimal]

No, I'm suggesting they got paid to learn them.

The easiest way to tell your math is off is to observe that virtually no one makes this sort of a show a staple, which would obviously be the case if it was easy money. The other notable stumbling block is that scaling these numbers to arenas results in figures far higher than we know them to be. I'm sure they didn't lose money on the Obscure shows, but neither of them are buying a sports car off the back of it.

The whole reason Dreamworld has run so long is because the marginal cost (i.e. day to day running costs) are low compared to revenue, and the upfront investment of staging the show was recouped very early in the touring cycle. But again, and to be clear, if money was all they were interested in, they'd tour 10 months a year. And it isn't.

Actually, the reason the Dreamworld tour has run so long is more likely because it's a global farewell tour, rather than it being exclusively about marginal cost. Pet Shop Boys have never toured one show for 4 years...logically, they're only going to do that if it's going to be their last global stage hurrah.

The reason Dreamworld continues to run is that the show is booked. Therefore, there is no need for PSB to call it a day. New Order have been doing likewise for ten years without releasing a new album in that time.

m+

[dbaseboy]

1. Obscure in Royal Arena Copenhagen (should be easy to sell out) and other places in Europe.

2. A massive cd/vinyl release of all b-sides in one (remastered)

3. Will we ever get a box set of all singles from start to end?

The more I think about this the more I now feel I’d agree if they didn’t do box sets especially for singles and b-sides as we have them in some form already. However a collection of rare remixes I’d love to have!

[dbaseboy]

Interestingly in the Guardian last week, Neil explained that one of the motivations for Obscure was to promote Volume:

Intended for hardcore fans, they say it’s partly to promote Volume. “One of the motivations behind it was we didn’t have to do book signings,” Tennant says. “I find them too weird. They’re a bit unnerving.”

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2026/ ... ra-windsor

So perhaps we'll have to wait for another book for another Obscure!

Actually, a sister version of Volume but this time with all the fan club newsletters, Literallys (all 42 of them), Annuallys and some additional and new conversations etc would be great! …and then Obscure2 to promote it