"Drinking tea like Tony Benn"

[raggatwin]

How many Irish people came here after the genocide in the 1850s?

[JSDOUVRES]

How many Irish people came here after the genocide in the 1850s?

What has this got to do with what we are talking about here? What does it have to do with the current situation we are facing with Europe?

You are changing the subject because you have no more bullshit left to say about what we are talking about here. 1850s? Been and gone, lets focus on today's situation. We are not talking about history here we are talking about today's world. Are you stuck in the past?

And if it is an attempt to discredit me because of my lack of historical knowledge then that is pretty poor. This is not a history lesson, it is about dealing with the modern problems we face.

[raggatwin]

gawd.....your avatar is pretty apt.

[JSDOUVRES]

Like I said this is not a history lesson, it is 2014 not 1850 or whenever. Try not to forget that.

[Danny C]

If Britain is full, I guess we need to start killing newborns if they take us over a certain level.

[JSDOUVRES]

If Britain is full, I guess we need to start killing newborns if they take us over a certain level.

As long as the borders are open I suppose you'd be happy enough with that wouldn't you? UKIP voters babies perhaps?

I do love it when people start going on about ridiculous and extreme things like what you are now. Kind of confirms the fact that you have no valid arguments left now doesn't it? Desperate stuff!

Still waiting for answers to my previous questions in regards to your famous estimated report but I guess now it's been exposed for what it is that wouldn't do you any good now would it?

[ZiggyPSB]

This is like an argument between Apple users and Apple haters. It just goes round and round in f*** circles.

[Danny C]

If Britain is full, I guess we need to start killing newborns if they take us over a certain level.

As long as the borders are open I suppose you'd be happy enough with that wouldn't you? UKIP voters babies perhaps?

I do love it when people start going on about ridiculous and extreme things like what you are now. Kind of confirms the fact that you have no valid arguments left now doesn't it? Desperate stuff!

You're the one claiming that Britain is "full". Or is it just "full" to foreigners?

Still waiting for answers to my previous questions in regards to your famous estimated report but I guess now it's been exposed for what it is that wouldn't do you any good now would it?

You already demonstrated that you don't even understand what an estimate is, therefore proving you have nothing of worth to contribute in criticism.

[JSDOUVRES]

If Britain is full, I guess we need to start killing newborns if they take us over a certain level.

As long as the borders are open I suppose you'd be happy enough with that wouldn't you? UKIP voters babies perhaps?

I do love it when people start going on about ridiculous and extreme things like what you are now. Kind of confirms the fact that you have no valid arguments left now doesn't it? Desperate stuff!

You're the one claiming that Britain is "full". Or is it just "full" to foreigners?

Still waiting for answers to my previous questions in regards to your famous estimated report but I guess now it's been exposed for what it is that wouldn't do you any good now would it?

You already demonstrated that you don't even understand what an estimate is, therefore proving you have nothing of worth to contribute in criticism.

You kept claiming to me it was a "fact"! It's up to you to tell me the difference from a fact and estimate if I am so apparently wrong. Although I know what an estimate is, a guess basically and in a situation like this an estimate is just not good enough and is further proof that Britain is not in control of it's borders! You have been claiming it was a factual report which it undoubtedly is not! Otherwise it would not be an estimated report but a factual one. Stop trying to confuse the situation. The report is not based on fact, which means that it is not worth the paper it is written on.

And the questions you are avoiding are the obvious ones about the key information left out of the report, you know work based benefits (lots of low paid workers claim them you know) plus other things such as the cost of housing foreign prisoners and lets not even get into the cost of unsolved crime etc which I'd say is massive. I'm sure there is some estimate out there of that but without doubt as this would not sit pretty with you then you would disregard it as just "an estimate"! You are too obvious!

And if you are now also going to claim that public services etc are not being pushed to the absolute limits then you really are out of touch!

[JSDOUVRES]

Have a look at this:
http://www.migrationwatchuk.co.uk/pdfs/BP1_37.pdf
It shows the report for what it is.
Although of course I will not claim this report to be "fact" because the actual figures are not known. Let's call it an "estimate" of the estimated reports purposely made inaccuracies.
Actual figures do not exist you see because Britain is not in control of its borders which unlike you I see as being scandalous and unacceptable.
Some very interesting points in the examination of the report which really do show it up for what it is, FICTION.

Take this for example:
"The authors themselves found a fiscal cost to the UK from migrants in the UK of £95 million between 1995 and 2011 yet the figure is not mentioned in their text and the abstract of their paper makes no mention of any fiscal cost at all."
I wonder why?

[StevePSB]

This is no longer a thread about the late Tony Benn, and hasn't been for pages and pages. This argument has been proven to go around and around ad nauseum in the past and that's what it is doing again now. All it ends up causing is upset of one variety or another and I'd rather it not again. Please, let it drop and move on.


StevePSB

[Danny C]

Fine by me, there's nothing more to be said anyway until JSDOUVRES contacts the report's authors with his criticisms

Although I'd still like to know how many people constitutes "full"

Tony Benn was an unreconstructed socialist whereas I am a liberal and libertarian centrist, but one thing we would be united in is our opposition to those who try to drive artificial wedges between people from different backgrounds.

[raggatwin]

I'm a socialist and opposed to the EU. This is my final word, finally.

[JSDOUVRES]

Fine by me, there's nothing more to be said anyway until JSDOUVRES contacts the report's authors with his criticisms

Although I'd still like to know how many people constitutes "full"

Tony Benn was an unreconstructed socialist whereas I am a liberal and libertarian centrist, but one thing we would be united in is our opposition to those who try to drive artificial wedges between people from different backgrounds.

I think we have seen the evidence and I'd "estimate" that me contacting the fictional report writers would be a waste of time. Imagine the information they might think not important enough to tell me? Or more accurately don't want me to know!! Clever these "professors"! Anyway, you must have read the links I sent in reference to it? Pretty interesting I'd say. And they clearly reference the report and it's clear inaccuracies and so are certainly not false.

And Britain being full is when (like today) schools are full, housing in short supply, public services at breaking point and jobs getting harder and harder to find because of the unrestricted numbers of mainly low skilled workers we now have. It absolutely amazes me that you really believe that we have the space for an unrestricted number of people?? You must be off your nuts!

And for your information, at the end of day I totally believe in immigration, CONTROLLED immigration. Immigration is vital, healthy and opens up our minds to the world. But we are not some kind of asylum centre and owe nothing to people that unfortunately for them come from poor countries with an awful quality of life. We have a huge number (thanks Labour) of unskilled workers here and must control numbers coming in, people coming here not for a love of Britain but because they see our country as "a way out" from their own failing country. I just cannot believe that people are willing to risk what we have because of their apparent "liberal" ways and are happy that Britain has lost control of it's borders, laws, trading powers and much more. We are still suffering from the benefit culture and unrestricted immigration that Labour brought to the country and although I agree with what the Tories have done in regards to benefits, like Labour they continue to be way off the mark when it comes to numbers coming into the country and continue to fail to do anything about it.

When it comes to Britain it seems that some political parties don't have much confidence in our great country and people. This great place has had its foundations built by British people and I don't understand why people seem to think we need to be part of a union that is taking away our powers and costing us millions a day when without doubt we could do much better by ourselves. At least UKIP believe in Britain and I am proud to be a member. Great to see so many others thinking the same way too. People seem to think UKIP are anti immigration but it couldn't be any different. They are not anti immigration, they believe in controlling our borders which more and more people are supporting as they see their communities change as well as wages and even rights being taken away from them. I don't believe that any country in the world would be happy with such huge waves of immigrants arriving like what we have had in Britain and it is not normal, fair or sustainable on anybody and that is just common sense.

I have spoken to people from Poland and Romania and on hearing their stories their is no doubt whatsoever why they have come to Britain and if I was them I would have done exactly the same. However, that does not make unrestricted immigration right and that cannot be disputed by any sane person that actually cares about this country. And there are no artificial "wedges" being driven here between people from different backgrounds, without doubt Britain and it's people are some of the most welcoming, hospitable and open minded in the world, however, for that to continue there has to be a happy medium where communities and services are not being swamped, changed and taken away from the very people that created them. Make of that what you wish.

It has been an interesting debate on here though, I've enjoyed it, some people can be pretty close minded when they want to, that is of no doubt. That's what politics does to some I suppose. I prefer to be realistic and in being a UKIP supporter I still do have my own views and certainly don't agree on everything the party stands for, I don't like what Farage said about Putin and don't agree with everything he said about gay marriages either to be honest but the thing I love about UKIP is that they believe in Britain, British people and the fact that we absolutely do not need Europe in order to prosper, the total opposite in fact. Shame we have people that don't have the same level of faith.

Looking forward to the upcoming elections!!

[Danny C]

It absolutely amazes me that you really believe that we have the space for an unrestricted number of people?? You must be off your nuts!

You've been asked to discontinue the discussion by the admin, yet you continue to spout outright lies about me and my opinions.

Stop it.

...some people can be pretty close minded when they want to...

Said without the merest trace of irony. Bravo.