Track-by-Track: From Please to Nonetheless

[NOBODY75]

Do you think releasing Before and a single is the same as releasing West End Girls, It's A Sin, Always on My Mind, Go West...?

Nope. But likewise they could write an equivalent to one of those today and they still wouldn’t chart. Bilingual was pretty much the opposite of the pop zeitgeist at the time - it speaks volumes about their previous track record that it did as well as it did at the time. The singles and the album should have done far worse.

The history of the charts proves there’s no correlation between quality and success. That’s not how pop music has ever worked.

Yes, nowadays they could release anything and it wouldn't be successful. I wrote the same thing. In fact, they've released some very good things like Love Etc. and Vocal, and nothing happened. But I was talking about 1996. I don't agree that quality doesn't correlate with success in pop music. Sometimes it doesn't, but most of the time it does. They went from 4.5 million copies of Very to 1.5 million of Bilingual, and you think they should have done even worse? There are great songs on Bilingual, and I think it's a good album; Up Against It is an example. Great song. I just think the album lacked two classics, two tracks at their peak, like many they had already released, to showcase to the wider public. That would have slowed the loss of fans and sales. Imagine if they had released Hey Boy Hey Girl, which someone mentioned was number one around that time... They would have extended their success for longer.
I'm using this song as an example of my argument that the quality of their releases was a factor, not because I personally wished they had released it. It's very difficult to maintain the level they had shown, and it's also very difficult to stay on top of the latest sounds and styles that are topping the charts. Besides, they always do what they feel like doing, without paying attention to current trends.

I'm very happy with Bilingual and the path they've followed from '96 to the present day because, despite the normal ups and downs, I think what they've given us is very good.

[sterlinglush]

Yikes, I missed the discussion of 'A red letter day' and arrived just in time for 'Up against it.' The former is one of my favorite songs of theirs and has been for years. Around the time of its release, I was in a complicated relationship that was just beginning to turn toxic. The song captures the bittersweetness of that moment, the realization that things could have worked out but took a turn somewhere. The lyrics very much spoke to where I was at the time and where I thought I was going. 'Up against it' -- I've always thought it was underrated. Would have made a good single. Like others here, I've always been baffled by 'Before': not a bad song, exactly, but a weird choice for a release and kind of a public declaration they were phoning it in.

[NotInvisible]

I don't agree that quality doesn't correlate with success in pop music. Sometimes it doesn't, but most of the time it does.

The charts are filled to bursting with absolute rubbish because it was trendy, not because good floats to the top.

[markus]

I don't agree that quality doesn't correlate with success in pop music. Sometimes it doesn't, but most of the time it does.

The charts are filled to bursting with absolute rubbish because it was trendy, not because good floats to the top.

It’s the first point of contact with music; it’s what today’s kids are targeted with. Eventually, many of them will widen their canvas, start exploring the 80s, and discover the big five Pet Shop Boys tracks. They’re unlikely to bother much with the 90s material, because it’s harder to penetrate. You really had to be there to understand what A Red Letter Day was all about.
What we can tell them is this: it was about mastering their own art and creating a niche appreciated by hardcore fans—people who understood them and grew old with their signature sound and style. Neil and Chris made a conscious choice to become a cult band. As mentioned, Kylie and Madonna both had second comings because they played the game differently.

[Patrick Bateman]

Yes, nowadays they could release anything and it wouldn't be successful. I wrote the same thing. In fact, they've released some very good things like Love Etc. and Vocal, and nothing happened. But I was talking about 1996. I don't agree that quality doesn't correlate with success in pop music. Sometimes it doesn't, but most of the time it does. They went from 4.5 million copies of Very to 1.5 million of Bilingual, and you think they should have done even worse? There are great songs on Bilingual, and I think it's a good album; Up Against It is an example. Great song. I just think the album lacked two classics, two tracks at their peak, like many they had already released, to showcase to the wider public. That would have slowed the loss of fans and sales. Imagine if they had released Hey Boy Hey Girl, which someone mentioned was number one around that time... They would have extended their success for longer.
I'm using this song as an example of my argument that the quality of their releases was a factor, not because I personally wished they had released it. It's very difficult to maintain the level they had shown, and it's also very difficult to stay on top of the latest sounds and styles that are topping the charts. Besides, they always do what they feel like doing, without paying attention to current trends.

I'm very happy with Bilingual and the path they've followed from '96 to the present day because, despite the normal ups and downs, I think what they've given us is very good.

Yes, Bilingual still has some top-tier songs and b-sides but it's definitely getting patchier. That's understandable as they'd used up a lot of the pre-fame songs on the preceding albums. It's easier to follow up Please when you have songs like Rent ready to record for Actually.

So they're having to write more new songs, particularly with more formats to fill. Albums will understandably come less frequently than they did in the early years.

Additionally, Neil's perspective has changed. He's no longer nerdy Neil, Smash Hits journalist, and often the songwriting shows that he no longer lives a normal life. To Step Aside accomplishes that adroitly but increasingly songs become more remote songwriting exercises, rather than being about personal experiences. Let's write a song about Peter Mandelson or Eminem, let's write a Village People pastiche.

I also think they lost the ability to write a pure pop song as time passed. Heart, arguably their purest pop song, became traduced as though something like The Night I Fell in Love was worthier. Reader, it wasn't.

[NOBODY75]

I don't agree that quality doesn't correlate with success in pop music. Sometimes it doesn't, but most of the time it does.

The charts are filled to bursting with absolute rubbish because it was trendy, not because good floats to the top.

If you're referring to today, I completely agree. And I think the UK is still resisting the total invasion. If you had to listen to the Spanish Top 10 Singles chart every week, you might have a stroke.

However, I was talking about the mid-90s and any decade before that, and even further back until a few years ago when the invasion of Trap, Urban, and that damn Reggaeton arrived. I do believe that quality mattered. Which doesn't mean that crap didn't reach the top and quality tracks didn't.

[matt74uk]

The singles from Bilingual might have been weaker than previous albums, but the remixes were top tier. The Discoteca (Trouser Enthusiasts Adventure Beyond the Stellar E) being the best of them all.

[NOBODY75]

The singles from Bilingual might have been weaker than previous albums, but the remixes were top tier. The Discoteca (Trouser Enthusiasts Adventure Beyond the Stellar E) being the best of them all.

Totally agree. And Trouser's remix of "A Red Letter Say" was also very good. And I love another one that I've never known if it's official or where it came from: "To Step Aside Elusivelys The Sexier Than Madonna Mix." I don't know if anyone has any information about this remix.

[Dog]

The singles from Bilingual might have been weaker than previous albums, but the remixes were top tier. The Discoteca (Trouser Enthusiasts Adventure Beyond the Stellar E) being the best of them all.

Totally agree. And Trouser's remix of "A Red Letter Say" was also very good. And I love another one that I've never known if it's official or where it came from: "To Step Aside Elusivelys The Sexier Than Madonna Mix." I don't know if anyone has any information about this remix.

It was made by Mike Fiorenza, who ran the Pet Shop Boys Elusively website in the 90s / 00s. He also went on to contribute to the official site for a short time, running the news feed. I agree, it’s a good remix.

[telys]

The singles from Bilingual might have been weaker than previous albums, but the remixes were top tier. The Discoteca (Trouser Enthusiasts Adventure Beyond the Stellar E) being the best of them all.

Totally agree. And Trouser's remix of "A Red Letter Say" was also very good. And I love another one that I've never known if it's official or where it came from: "To Step Aside Elusivelys The Sexier Than Madonna Mix." I don't know if anyone has any information about this remix.

It was made by Mike Fiorenza, who ran the Pet Shop Boys Elusively website in the 90s / 00s. He also went on to contribute to the official site for a short time, running the news feed. I agree, it’s a good remix.

What happened to Mike?

[Disco.]

Do you think releasing Before and a single is the same as releasing West End Girls, It's A Sin, Always on My Mind, Go West...?

Nope. But likewise they could write an equivalent to one of those today and they still wouldn’t chart. Bilingual was pretty much the opposite of the pop zeitgeist at the time - it speaks volumes about their previous track record that it did as well as it did at the time. The singles and the album should have done far worse.

The history of the charts proves there’s no correlation between quality and success. That’s not how pop music has ever worked.

Yes, nowadays they could release anything and it wouldn't be successful. I wrote the same thing. In fact, they've released some very good things like Love Etc. and Vocal, and nothing happened. But I was talking about 1996. I don't agree that quality doesn't correlate with success in pop music. Sometimes it doesn't, but most of the time it does. They went from 4.5 million copies of Very to 1.5 million of Bilingual, and you think they should have done even worse? There are great songs on Bilingual, and I think it's a good album; Up Against It is an example. Great song. I just think the album lacked two classics, two tracks at their peak, like many they had already released, to showcase to the wider public. That would have slowed the loss of fans and sales. Imagine if they had released Hey Boy Hey Girl, which someone mentioned was number one around that time... They would have extended their success for longer.
I'm using this song as an example of my argument that the quality of their releases was a factor, not because I personally wished they had released it. It's very difficult to maintain the level they had shown, and it's also very difficult to stay on top of the latest sounds and styles that are topping the charts. Besides, they always do what they feel like doing, without paying attention to current trends.

I'm very happy with Bilingual and the path they've followed from '96 to the present day because, despite the normal ups and downs, I think what they've given us is very good.

You almost wrote a novel there
And Very has apparently sold more than 5 million copies.

[Dog]

Totally agree. And Trouser's remix of "A Red Letter Say" was also very good. And I love another one that I've never known if it's official or where it came from: "To Step Aside Elusivelys The Sexier Than Madonna Mix." I don't know if anyone has any information about this remix.

It was made by Mike Fiorenza, who ran the Pet Shop Boys Elusively website in the 90s / 00s. He also went on to contribute to the official site for a short time, running the news feed. I agree, it’s a good remix.

What happened to Mike?

I think there was a falling out. He just took his site down. Others may know more than me.

[NOBODY75]

The singles from Bilingual might have been weaker than previous albums, but the remixes were top tier. The Discoteca (Trouser Enthusiasts Adventure Beyond the Stellar E) being the best of them all.

Totally agree. And Trouser's remix of "A Red Letter Say" was also very good. And I love another one that I've never known if it's official or where it came from: "To Step Aside Elusivelys The Sexier Than Madonna Mix." I don't know if anyone has any information about this remix.

It was made by Mike Fiorenza, who ran the Pet Shop Boys Elusively website in the 90s / 00s. He also went on to contribute to the official site for a short time, running the news feed. I agree, it’s a good remix.

Thanks for the information, dog

[NOBODY75]

You almost wrote a novel there
And Very has apparently sold more than 5 million copies.
[/quote]
Yes, it's clear that I didn't know how to summarize what I wanted to express any better
I had a feeling it was 5, but I wanted to err on the side of caution. But the reality was far worse... 7 out of 10 people who bought Very jumped ship and never came back. It's always shocked me. Oh well, their loss.

[markus]

It’s a slightly disturbing thought, but I wonder how many of those five million people played Go West once and then changed the CD. Maybe to Introspective, bought mainly for Always on My Mind (or Domino Dancing).

Up Against It might actually have worked at the time. Electronic’s Forbidden City was all over music TV, Monaco’s What Do You Want from Me? was a radio hit, and Manic Street Preachers were about to break through with If You Tolerate This….
The problem is that new buyers would probably have felt the same let-down they did with Very: where’s the rest?