Flaffer wrote: Fri 14 Apr 2023, 9:06 am
How the heck did Groovy get on Super and not I will fall or The lost room. Their choices baffle me sometimes
Agreed. I think fans care less about album cohesion than artists and critics do, in general. I would prefer the inclusion of an amazing track that is perhaps a bit askew with the theme of an album rather than a merely good track that is more aligned with the vibe. PSB seem a bit too preoccupied with prioritizing album cohesion above all else, often coming at the expense of amazing tracks ("An Open Mind" not appearing on Hotspot, "Always" with Release, and "Shameless" with Very.) I think they've even expressed some regret at relegating "Always" to b-side status.
I don't think anyone other than Stuart Price would have batted an eye at "I Will Fall" if it was on Super, and same with "The Lost Room" (especially with the somewhat dark "The Dictator Decides" being right there.)
Flaffer wrote: Fri 14 Apr 2023, 9:06 am
How the heck did Groovy get on Super and not I will fall or The lost room. Their choices baffle me sometimes
Agreed. I think fans care less about album cohesion than artists and critics do, in general. I would prefer the inclusion of an amazing track that is perhaps a bit askew with the theme of an album rather than a merely good track that is more aligned with the vibe. PSB seem a bit too preoccupied with prioritizing album cohesion above all else, often coming at the expense of amazing tracks ("An Open Mind" not appearing on Hotspot, "Always" with Release, and "Shameless" with Very.) I think they've even expressed some regret at relegating "Always" to b-side status.
I don't think anyone other than Stuart Price would have batted an eye at "I Will Fall" if it was on Super, and same with "The Lost Room" (especially with the somewhat dark "The Dictator Decides" being right there.)
Agree with that but I really believe "Shameles" was a clear opener for "Very". For me, one of their biggest mistakes.
King1 wrote:Totally agree, I will fall instead of Groovy is a no brainer.
Groovy is a perfect fit for Super. It’s brash and unhinged and hyper pop. Rather than Super, I will fall would be a much better fit with the romance of Hotspot.
Nickname wrote: Thu 25 May 2023, 4:23 pm
Agree with that but I really believe "Shameles" was a clear opener for "Very". For me, one of their biggest mistakes.
"Shameless" might be a bit overwhelming for an album opener. You need to prep people a bit before you throw all that high-NRG irony at them. "Can You Forgive Her" is the perfect, concise declarative statement for Very. I would put "Shameless" second from the end, in place of "One In a Million", as a kind of pre-finale before "Go West." Then "One In a Million" could be the b-side of the "Go West" single (which feels correct to me.)
Dog wrote: Thu 25 May 2023, 4:25 pm
Groovy is a perfect fit for Super. It’s brash and unhinged and hyper pop. Rather than Super, I will fall would be a much better fit with the romance of Hotspot.
Yeah I will agree with this. I've always just had a natural resistance to "Groovy" so maybe I need to go back and give it another try.
Neil & Chris suck at album "cohesion". They haven't been able to make a coherent album since... let me see...Well Fundamental was quite coherent and Very of course.
Nickname wrote: Thu 25 May 2023, 4:23 pm
Agree with that but I really believe "Shameles" was a clear opener for "Very". For me, one of their biggest mistakes.
"Shameless" might be a bit overwhelming for an album opener. You need to prep people a bit before you throw all that high-NRG irony at them. "Can You Forgive Her" is the perfect, concise declarative statement for Very. I would put "Shameless" second from the end, in place of "One In a Million", as a kind of pre-finale before "Go West." Then "One In a Million" could be the b-side of the "Go West" single (which feels correct to me.)
It depends on your own taste. For me, taking into account the quite big intro with a "hello" on it, that's a clear opener and Can You Forgive Her? a perfect second track.
Danimal wrote:
Dog, I’ve also made my own Further listening playlists in chronological order based upon completion dates from “Literally.” GREAT job with this!
Here’s my Hotspot one for completeness… Let me know if you have anything different!
1. New boy
2. The forgotten child
3. What are we going to do about the rich?
4. Give stupidity a chance
5. On social media
6. An open mind
7. Dreamland (PSB remix)
8. No boundaries
9. Angelic thug
10. Johnny’s dark side
11. Beautiful laundrette
12. Night sings (Popa’s theme)
13. Decide
14. At rock bottom
15. West End girls (new lockdown version)
16. Cricket wife
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Omar's theme
Johnny's theme
For Every Moment
Ich bin Musik
Mongrel
Soup
Opportunities (Tetris version) - but it's a Lipson mix so perhaps not.
Purple Zone (PSB extended)
I guess decifing over where the shift between Super and Hotspot FL lays could shove some of the tracks over to the other side. Anyway, either Super or Hotspot FL could be a double disc adventure.
Dog wrote: Sun 19 Mar 2023, 9:28 am
Here’s my Hotspot one for completeness… Let me know if you have anything different!
1. New boy
2. The forgotten child
3. What are we going to do about the rich?
4. Give stupidity a chance
5. On social media
6. An open mind
7. Dreamland (PSB remix)
8. No boundaries
9. Angelic thug
10. Johnny’s dark side
11. Beautiful laundrette
12. Night sings (Popa’s theme)
13. Decide
14. At rock bottom
15. West End girls (new lockdown version)
16. Cricket wife
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Omar's theme
Johnny's theme
For Every Moment
Ich bin Musik
Mongrel
Soup
Opportunities (Tetris version) - but it's a Lipson mix so perhaps not.
Purple Zone (PSB extended)
I guess decifing over where the shift between Super and Hotspot FL lays could shove some of the tracks over to the other side. Anyway, either Super or Hotspot FL could be a double disc adventure.
To be fair, Pet Shop Boys don’t as a rule feature collaborations on their Further Listening discs.
For Every Moment
Ich bin Musik
Mongrel
Soup
Opportunities (Tetris version) - but it's a Lipson mix so perhaps not.
Purple Zone (PSB extended)
I guess decifing over where the shift between Super and Hotspot FL lays could shove some of the tracks over to the other side. Anyway, either Super or Hotspot FL could be a double disc adventure.
To be fair, Pet Shop Boys don’t as a rule feature collaborations on their Further Listening discs.
True, unfortunately, some of "their" rules suck. Like putting weak demoes (So Sorry I Said) on FL but not excellent remixes by the main producer of the album (Dawson's Happysad mixes of Winner and Leaving).
Flaffer wrote: Fri 14 Apr 2023, 9:06 am
How the heck did Groovy get on Super and not I will fall or The lost room. Their choices baffle me sometimes
Agreed. I think fans care less about album cohesion than artists and critics do, in general. I would prefer the inclusion of an amazing track that is perhaps a bit askew with the theme of an album rather than a merely good track that is more aligned with the vibe. PSB seem a bit too preoccupied with prioritizing album cohesion above all else, often coming at the expense of amazing tracks ("An Open Mind" not appearing on Hotspot, "Always" with Release, and "Shameless" with Very.) I think they've even expressed some regret at relegating "Always" to b-side status.
I don't think anyone other than Stuart Price would have batted an eye at "I Will Fall" if it was on Super, and same with "The Lost Room" (especially with the somewhat dark "The Dictator Decides" being right there.)
Agree with that but I really believe "Shameles" was a clear opener for "Very". For me, one of their biggest mistakes.
Agreed. I think fans care less about album cohesion than artists and critics do, in general. I would prefer the inclusion of an amazing track that is perhaps a bit askew with the theme of an album rather than a merely good track that is more aligned with the vibe. PSB seem a bit too preoccupied with prioritizing album cohesion above all else, often coming at the expense of amazing tracks ("An Open Mind" not appearing on Hotspot, "Always" with Release, and "Shameless" with Very.) I think they've even expressed some regret at relegating "Always" to b-side status.
I don't think anyone other than Stuart Price would have batted an eye at "I Will Fall" if it was on Super, and same with "The Lost Room" (especially with the somewhat dark "The Dictator Decides" being right there.)
Agree with that but I really believe "Shameles" was a clear opener for "Very". For me, one of their biggest mistakes.
I agree 100%
Well, one thing's for sure, ever since Very they've basically sucked at album cohesion. It's as if they're doing the right way right up until the end when they go bananas and put in some esoteric track (WIB on Hotspot being prime example, or that Eminem tacky on Release). That's why Electric was such a relief, just a bunch of great and weird electronic tracks.
Shameless as the opening track on Very would have been a stroke of genius. Should’ve been a single. Likewise with Miserablism not being on Behaviour (I’d personally had swapped it for How can you expect to be taken seriously?). Biggest let down is Wedding in Berlin on Hotspot; big no-no. Sorry just my opinion.
Groovy is an essential part of what makes Super super, for me.
Hotspot has me more and more baffled, as possible but excluded tracks come out… I will fall, Decide, An open mind… all would have lifted the album. They would have, wouldn’t they?
