Gay Marriages?

[glennjridge]

thats very true undertaker.

but I am surprised that gay people wouldnt tackle this issue with exitement.
the concept of coming up with their own ceremony. you would think they would love to outdo what the old institution of marriage is.
if I were gay, I would rather make my own style of ceremony, I like to think I could come up with something really fun.

[rags]

You don't need the paper to declare your love, but when one of you dies or gets termanilly ill, it is bloody easy to have it to make sure that the kids get where they should and the belongings stay where they ought too.

[glennjridge]

first off, I have to say blueswan, in the OT, which is basically shared by the islamics/jews/christians god said man and woman should be joined as one, I believe thats where the marriuage concept comes from as thats why it generally takes place in churches/temples/mosque. but I will have to research if it predates over 4000 years ago.

I cant deny there is anti gay sentiment in many peoples cultures, and yes some institutions change with times, and yes gay marriages wont hurt americans. but I question why gay people even want fight so hard to marry in a religious ceremony.I bet if we did a poll, most gay people find the concept of the various deities unbelievable. the very same people who want to fight to get married in a concept that is based on religion.

[bigboy]

but I question why gay people even want fight so hard to marry in a religious ceremony.I bet if we did a poll, most gay people find the concept of the various deities unbelievable. the very same people who want to fight to get married in a concept that is based on religion.

You keep missing the point. You constantly delude yourself that marriage is all about a religious ceremony, and that gays want marriage so they can have a religious ceremony ("rather than something fun" ).

You'll actually find that most gays who want to be married do so to have equal human rights with heteros (yes, shocking, isn't it? ) - you know, stuff you people take for granted, like inheritance, tax, being allowed at the bedside of your dying partner, those trivial kind of things.

Fool.

[bigboy]

Is that a bloke or a bird ?

No, it's Supersatanas.

[BlueSwan]

first off, I have to say blueswan, in the OT, which is basically shared by the islamics/jews/christians god said man and woman should be joined as one, I believe thats where the marriuage concept comes from as thats why it generally takes place in churches/temples/mosque. but I will have to research if it predates over 4000 years ago.

I cant deny there is anti gay sentiment in many peoples cultures, and yes some institutions change with times, and yes gay marriages wont hurt americans. but I question why gay people even want fight so hard to marry in a religious ceremony.I bet if we did a poll, most gay people find the concept of the various deities unbelievable. the very same people who want to fight to get married in a concept that is based on religion.

It's not about the religious ceremony. The state wouldn't interfere with the practice of churces, which are seperate from the state in most countries (absurdly, not so in Denmark where we have a state-church - very embarrassing for us as a supposedly democratic nation). Marriage can take place in a non-religious context, such as the danish registrered partnership for gay couples.

As for the origin of marriage. The coupling of man and woman through a ceremony have probably existed for about as long as mankind has existed - how exactly the ceremony have been executed have changed with the times, as have the legal status of the coupling.

[amhilde]

Folks-

Please remember that in the case of the US there is much more beyond the idea of it being a "ceremony" and has nothing really to do with any church, though i believe the Methodists were struggling last year with electing gay clergy. The problem lies primarily with death benefits, pensions, health care, and a whole bevy of benefits that, legally, normally accrue to the spouses if one is married. Benefits from the federal government and employers. So as long as a gay couple, who may have been together longer than some kid who just married his gf, cannot legally marry, they are not legally entitled to a LOT of benefits. Is that fair? Thats the descrimination people are talking about, not necessarily the right to have a fricken ceremony. To put it into the Constitution, which will take a long long LONG time ( and has nthing to do with Bush having money or not- hes got over $110 million for his reelection campaign, almost twice what Kerry legally has) is effectively shutting out a section of society that does exist and in this day and age can be vocal and out and about. Its not allowing these people to be full citizens and entitled to what everyone else has. ANd thats not fair either.

Speaking of fair, I get shafted by the government on my taxes every year because im not married and am single. This government already has enough incentives built in to the laws to make being married, just having that stupid piece of paper, beneficial. When coworkers have to go home to take care of their kids, or get maternity and, in super rare cases paternity leave, or get the child and family tax credit or special tax breaks and employment perks because they are married and/or have children- they receive much more in overal compensation than the single person who has to pick up the slack. And its the same thing with gay people.

No, the US is not as progressive as some countries like say Sweden where there is the seperate section on forms for "living together" Gee i really WISH, but its not going to happen for a long long time. People need to realize that the 1950s are done and gone, but changing the minds and attitudes of 290 million people in diverse regions in a nation this huge is a monumental task.

[Scandal]

As of today, same sex marriages can take place in Birmingham City and Aston Villa Football grounds.

So, as well as the above two football grounds, in Birimingham, same sex marriages can take place at the Alexandria Theatre, Edgbastion Cricket Ground and the Botanical Gardens!

[bookshopboy]

If you can get married in a non-religious state marriage as a heterosexual couple (ie a Registry Office wedding) then why can this not be open to people of all sexualities?

In an increasingly secular country, why does the government insist on continually catering for the christian minority?

Another thing that annoys me is the use of "Family Values" as an excuse to say that gay marriages should not be allowed! If all marriages had this applied to them, then the only people who should be allowed to marry are those couples who will definately have children. Why allow old people to marry then?

[PigletWildebeest]

first off, I have to say blueswan, in the OT, which is basically shared by the islamics/jews/christians god said man and woman should be joined as one, I believe thats where the marriuage concept comes from as thats why it generally takes place in churches/temples/mosque. but I will have to research if it predates over 4000 years ago.

Funny. I thought the religion and religious rules were made by people.
You're also naming the three monotheistic religions, as if there were no others, but that's besides the point.

Marriage is to do with state matters.
As I said before, but you clearly don't want to believe, a religious ceremony is not valid in the eyes of the belgian law! Only a ceremony at city hall is.
"those crazy gay people" want, as bigboy said, equal rights. And that includes marriage.

[PigletWildebeest]

if they were smart, instead of always being bitchy and calling people vile and homophobes, like rosie o donnel they would create their own style of union. but instead they seem to want to turn marriage into a big battle ground when they could simply avoid a fight and anaimosity by creating their own ceremony.

cripes, homosexuals you would think would LOVE to make their own style "flamboyant ceremony".but no, they want to change our institution.

Do lesbians count as well?
I mean, you refer to this "flamboyant" thing. That's usually a gay man's thing right? Does this go for lesbians as well or did you conveniently forget them? Or should they create their own ceremony with Monstertruckdriving or something?

So, let me ask you this, do you believe that gays and straights should have equal rights, yes or no?
That's the only real question that matters here.
If you say "yes" then that means that everything that is ok for straight people, everything!, should be ok for gay people too. That includes marriage, going in Dubya's army, having kids, the lot.
If you say no, I'd be very interested to hear why.

[bookshopboy]

I personally think the word "marriage" is horrible anyway. It conjures up ideas of a nasty religious ceremony made for religous freaks.

I would like to have my relationship recognized by UK Law. I don't care what they want to call it as long as I have the same rights as everyone else.

[PigletWildebeest]

I personally think the word "marriage" is horrible anyway. It conjures up ideas of a nasty religious ceremony made for religous freaks.

I would like to have my relationship recognized by UK Law. I don't care what they want to call it as long as I have the same rights as everyone else.

Well it does conjure up this image after reading mr ridge's posts all in a row.
On a nicer note: LOVE the cookiemonster!

[bookshopboy]

What? Cookie Monster? Who's he? That actually how I look! All blue and furry and I eat cookies all day!

[PigletWildebeest]

What? Cookie Monster? Who's he? That actually how I look! All blue and furry and I eat cookies all day!

Be careful, it makes me want to squeeze and cuddle you!