Numb Tracklisting

Message

Propertius · #91 Post by **Propertius** » Mon 18 Sep 2006, 2:10 am

Well, everyone has an opinion, but does anyone have hard numbers as to how DVD singles sell compared to vinyl? It may be apples-to-oranges to compare the I'm with stupid 7" to the "Minimal" DVD, but if the difference is huge it would still tell us something. (And was there a vinyl format for "Minimal"? I vaguely recall some kind of 12" released after the fact, but maybe I'm thinking of a promo.)

I don't have much of a stake in this fight since I couldn't be arsed to watch more than 20 seconds of the "Numb" video on YouTube and don't particularly care about having it on DVD as well as on CD-ROM. But I can see that if you love the video, maybe it does make a difference.

The Ewen Pearson "Psychological" may well get a digital download release anyway, so there's little point in fretting about it just yet. And I tend not to think that we would be getting some great unreleased material if there were a DVD single, some extra b-sides or something, since the Boys have been pretty parsimonious so far on the Fundamental singles. Most likely we'd just get the video, the Pearson mix (maybe), and something like the craptacular Superchumbo mix of "Minimal."

patrick · #92 Post by **patrick** » Mon 18 Sep 2006, 3:48 am

Propertius wrote:The Ewen Pearson "Psychological" may well get a digital download release anyway

...with horrible encoding.

the Boys have been pretty parsimonious so far on the Fundamental singles

...which isn't the best way to mollify an increasingly frustrated fanbase when it's well known how many unreleased tracks are floating around.

Propertius · #93 Post by **Propertius** » Mon 18 Sep 2006, 5:30 am

True, a digital download won't be CD-quality. If the Pearson mix is exceptionally good, it'll be a shame not to have it in the best ordinary audio format. On the other hand, if it's anything like Tiga's "Minimal" dub or Superchumbo's mix of the same, or half the other mediocre mixes we've had on the recent singles, a middling quality download will be plenty good enough.

On the other point, why the blazes should the Boys want to mollify a handful of people on the internet? Are you going to stop buying PSB CDs because you can't get the Ewen Pearson mix in CD quality? You could argue that putting out more original material would help single sales, but even that might not be true. Like the DVD vs. vinyl argument, I'd want to see some numbers. (And yes, of course as a fan I want them to release as much original material as possible. But I can well understand if they don't like some of their unfinished songs and think that releasing them would dilute their reputation. That's the Boys' call to make.)

All this moaning over the "Numb" releases is unjustified. Out of five tracks on the two CD singles, we're getting four new PSB originals (or three originals and one new Trevor Horn edit of "Numb"). Considering the way the chart rules are rigged these days, that isn't not too bad, and if including West End girls on CD1 helps sales of the single or of Concert, it's a pretty small price to pay.

Tomas · #94 Post by **Tomas** » Mon 18 Sep 2006, 8:48 am

Oznerol wrote:
Tomas wrote:Also, in technical sense of sound processing/reproduction, digital can't beat analogue (even though a casual listener usually doesn't notice / care about the difference, especially as digital technologies get better), so vinyl hardly can be called outdated.
You can be sure there are more people out there today with DVD players than turntables...

And? I was talking about technical audio quality, not about availability... And with the former aspect on mind, analogue sound is not outdated.

Oznerol wrote:I have both, but if a lot of people was angry because you can´t play a DVD on a CD player, for sure you can´t play a vinyl there neither...

Yes, but as I wrote above at least it has some logic; and as I wrote earlier - what sense does it make to release audio-only tracks on video carriers? Twenty years ago, they also didn't release songs on videotapes, did they? Also, it's still better to have 2 CDs + 1 vinyl, than 1 CD, 1 DVD and 1 vinyl.

Tomas · #95 Post by **Tomas** » Mon 18 Sep 2006, 9:01 am

patrick wrote:
Tomas wrote:vinyl hardly can be called outdated.
Every single person I know has the ability to play a CD. I literally don't know a single person with a record player and haven't actually seen one outside a club in years. Vinyl is an outdated format

Please keep context on mind. I wrote "in technical sense of sound processing/reproduction, digital can't beat analogue [...], so vinyl hardly can be called outdated" - not "there's as many turntables as CD/DVD players, so vinyl is not outdated".

Also, you wrote about ability to play a CD. Does every person you know the ability to play a DVD? (And to play it so it gives them the same sound quality as when they run a CD though their home stereo? [Omit PC DVDs.])

I understand the objections against putting unique materials on vinyls, but my point was only against the strange logic of releasing audio tracks on DVDs. I personally can get the best only from CDs at the moment. Surely they could release (without saying so in advance, so the vinyl sales are not affected) the third CD with the vinyl tracks a few weeks later, so everyone could have their official copy? Or make a German release again? Also, there's been something extra on vinyls time to time - Disco 3 promos comes to my mind.

Paulo · #96 Post by **Paulo** » Mon 18 Sep 2006, 11:10 am

All I was getting at is that is annoying to have dvd singles for 2 out of 3 releases off an album. It makes it inconsistant.

TeCHno PoP · #97 Post by **TeCHno PoP** » Mon 18 Sep 2006, 12:31 pm

First I hated that tracklist, but now I quite like it.

patrick · #98 Post by **patrick** » Mon 18 Sep 2006, 4:21 pm

Propertius wrote:On the other point, why the blazes should the Boys want to mollify a handful of people on the internet?

Because that's pretty much the only people they're still selling to.

Are you going to stop buying PSB CDs because you can't get the Ewen Pearson mix in CD quality?

I'm not buying the vinyl and will instead be pirating the track. That's a lost sale.

All this moaning over the "Numb" releases is unjustified.

It's completely justified. The PSB are in part a commercial enterprise and the negative sentiment over Numb is a valid consumer reaction for a product that doesn't mean demand. This idea that PSB should never be criticized by the fanbase is silly.

Out of five tracks on the two CD singles, we're getting four new PSB originals

We're essentially getting one new track fandom hasn't already heard.

Tomas wrote:Please keep context on mind. I wrote "in technical sense of sound processing/reproduction, digital can't beat analogue [...], so vinyl hardly can be called outdated"

I just don't see the point in that kind of language. Beta is superior to VHS but if nobody has a Beta player it's pointless to be making that sort of argument. If the PSB want better sales they need to be delivering product in a format that can actually be used by the consumer base. We could have a fantasy world where releasing Numb on 8 Track would be the best possible audio format but it would still be a stupid thing to do.

Does every person you know the ability to play a DVD?

Yes. I'm not going to omit PC DVD drives because the willingness of the masses to abandon vinyl proves that audio quality is not a real issue for anyone but hardcore audiophiles.

Surely they could release (without saying so in advance, so the vinyl sales are not affected) the third CD with the vinyl tracks a few weeks later, so everyone could have their official copy? Or make a German release again?

Well this makes perfect sense, so of course they'll never do it.

Drem · #99 Post by **Drem** » Tue 19 Sep 2006, 8:57 am

Too bad... i'm a poor fortune-teller

. Don't like tracklisting, especially CD1 (probably i play it once and lock away for a years full of dust). Live "West End girls" maybe is right commercial step but not best part of perfomance.
DVD is not included? Great video of Numb with CD-quality, not DVD... And Numb - isn't Fundamental song which accapella i would like to hear.

dVTB · #100 Post by **dVTB** » Tue 19 Sep 2006, 10:46 am

For the first time in my 20 year history as a PSB fan, I seriously consider NOT to buy one of the formats of a new PSB single.

I don't feel like paying money for a mutilated version of Numb, combined with a live version of West End Girls, available on an album I will buy one week later.

Numb is a fan-only release and I seriously fear that this song is going to be the first non-Top 20 single for Pet Shop Boys since Was It Worth It.

gareth · #101 Post by **gareth** » Tue 19 Sep 2006, 10:49 am

dVTB wrote: Numb is a fan-only release and I seriously fear that this song is going to be the first non-Top 20 single for Pet Shop Boys since Was It Worth It.

That's a little self-defeating surely? A fan release that a fan won't purchase because he thinks it won't reach the Top 20.

There's been some speculation (as someone once said) - why don't we wait for 100% confirmation?

G

Eldritch · #102 Post by **Eldritch** » Tue 19 Sep 2006, 11:19 am

Drem wrote:Live "West End girls" maybe is right commercial step but not best part of perfomance.

I don't think it's a wise commercial move at all. Just how many people are there out there who are thinking: "I really like that West End Girls by pet Shop Boys but instead of buying Discography from the bargain bin, I think I'll wait until I can buy it as an inferior live version on the b-side of some single?" I think it's pretty safe to say that those people are outnumbered by the fans who'll leave the single on the shelf because there nothing new on it for them. A PSB single with an unreleased song as a b-side would definitely sell more.

ChoonHound · #103 Post by **ChoonHound** » Tue 19 Sep 2006, 2:12 pm

I’m buying it only cos:

1) I have a slight collection addiction
2) It doesn’t cost much

But that’s it… I’m not happy about it.

Dipso · #104 Post by **Dipso** » Tue 19 Sep 2006, 2:37 pm

I'm not buying Numb. I have bought every single (in every format) since West End Girls in 1985, but I really don't feel enthused enough to spend 25 quid shipping the four formats over to Japan this time around. I will download some of the extra tracks from iTunes though.

Lleonard Pler · #105 Post by **Lleonard Pler** » Tue 19 Sep 2006, 2:38 pm

It's fun seeing people that won't buy this PSB single but wouldn't hesitate to buy an expensive import CD by another artist who had a bonus track where Neil sang the backing vocals.