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glennjridge wrote:well that should show you how unbiased I am.
I believe Jesus was the lord and saviour.and at the jews prompting, Jesus was killed.

you are sticking up for middle east modus operandi because you think your supposed to.

I stick up for Israel because I see a people who are continually attacked and threatened by a mindset that is primitive and intolerant in that region.I could careless about knowing a Israeli.or their culture.

I would feel the same about arabs if I felt the Israeli were the problem. I just dont.

1 - I am not talking abut Jesus! Look at the prophets' history" . God sent many prophets to jews! how did they behave? Search it!

2 - Why dont you invite Jews to your country? You can give them a state...

3 - What about palestinians? They are being bombed, killed..

I really dont understand you! You must be a joke!


*Edit


An another great article from Robert Fisk

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/co ... 30046.html

and a caricature

http://www.timeturk.com/images/caricature/268.jpg

gregf wrote:

glenjridge wrote:hatred of jews is a stupid,lame, and irrational mindset that people have indoctrinated their children with in the middle east

Hatred of Ay-rabs is stupid and irrational indoctrination also.

Glen there is a point of view that anti-semitism didn't stop in America ;
it just shifted target to the Palestinians. You come across that way.

glenjridge wrote:if there were no attacks on Israel,there would be peace.

What utter, utter rubbish. Israel keeps walking away from peace when Likud is in power.
The problem is, Israel is afraid to make peace and prefers constant warfare. Fact.

When Clinton came close to getting final peace in 2000, Israel demanded the Al-Asqa
Mosque on temple mount, just to screw the whole process. Fact.

Who assassinated Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin for making peace ?
Jewish conservatives. Fact.

You come across as supporting this policy of constant warfare over peace.
Or worse, not understanding it is happening.

If you had a friend who was beaten up, then developed a paranoid psychosis and kept,
attacking his neighbours, would you try to calm him down, or inflame his psychosis ?

You blur all Ay-rabs as a continuation of Fascist anti-semitism. This is very tired Israeli
propaganda. Exodus (1960 Paul Newman) was a propaganda movie. Not fact.

I can understand why your this way. US television is afraid to show any report on Israeli brutality.
50 years of one side of the story. It's all so sad.

Arafat got 95% of what he wanted and in the end he declined the peace offer. Why? Because he knows how to play western fools like a fiddle.
Hamas places people on purpose in buildings where they fire at Israel. They want as many people dead. They use humans as shields which under the Geneva conventions means that those who place people as human shields are to blame for the deaths of those human shields. The Palestinians are all civilians as no fighter actually wears a uniform to be discernible as a fighter. Furthermore, they fight for no country but themselves. This means that they are conducting a war against all Geneva conventions. But I expected nothing less but utter antisemitic drivel from a fascist apologist as you, greg. Hitler called himself a socialist just like you are. You despise capitalism just like Hitler despised it. All you do is "blame capitalism and the West" but don't dare attack the Islamofascists. And let's face it: 99% of Arabs and muslims hate the Jews. Why? Because it's in the "Quran". It's nohing more but the 6th century's "Mein Kampf". islam is based on amtisemitism. Why not blame Islam for a change? You are nothing but a useful ignoramus and antisemite.

yeah.
the more some of these posters post, I see what a sham these people who consider themselves enlightened and liberal minded really are.

they treat their little pet project subjects like gay marriage and freedom from religion like a paris hilton treats her tiny dogs. just as an accessory. to make them look and feel good on the outside.

but when it comes down to it.... on the inside where it really counts......they are just run of the mill old fashioned anti-semitists.infected with this backwards,archaic,primitive dislike of der juden.

Ali G, you are so staggeringly pig-ignorant you make Glenn look like a cross between Colin Powell and Warren Christopher.

glennjridge wrote:but when it comes down to it.... on the inside where it really counts......they are just run of the mill old fashioned anti-semitists.infected with this backwards,archaic,primitive dislike of der juden.

Out of interest, and without wishing to dabble my toes any more than I have to in this utterly retarded debate, what's your opinion of all those Jews who oppose the treatment of the Palestinians?

The best article on this conflict I have read has been this article by the Israeli scholar Avi Shlaim.

I can't excuse Hamas's rocket attacks, but as an ethnic Jew I have been very disappointed by Israel's behaviour too. Neither side in this whole shameful episode has covered themselves in glory.

I read the article. what do I think? I think if you read the article he is against Israel living there. so right there,he's put his cards on the table. reality is, Israel is living there,it was an agreement per the Oslo agreement, and time traveling back in time serves no purpose because Israel isnt leaving.so he's on a soapbox.

his other argument is the disportionate use of Israeli power.
which is always the most bizzare angle when talking about war.

if one is foolish enough to attack a greater power, you have no control over how the greater power will respond. what mixed up world do we live in where the one attacked has to care more for the other people when they are being attacked. its the weirdest set of rules one applys only to Israel and america.

I started this thread critical of Hamas and their rockets.
And I would still be doing that if i did not have to keep correcting
the propaganda posts of the Republican-Zionists.

You guys appear to be totally ignorant of Israeli political history and foreign policy.
Likud (conservative) has had a publicly stated policy of continuous warfare
rather than peace, for decades. From Menachem Begin to of Benjamin Netanyahu,
Likud has publicly opposed peace. Netanyahu is currently trying to be elected on that policy.

On the final day of the Camp David summit in 2000, the Israelis got worried that peace was possible.
To ensure failure without being seen to be at fault, they demanded Israelis sovereignty over
the Al-Aqsa_Mosque, the 3rd most holy site in Islam. There is no way Arafat could give that away
and everyone knew, this was a tactic to deliberately fail the talks.

Some Israelis have committed atrocities just as some Palestinian have. From the Sabra and Shatila massacre
organised by Sharon, to the present day, where IDF troops regularly shoot at civilians,
and often kill children, press, Westerners, Americans, anyone they imagine to be "anti-semitic".

I have to remind myself that many Jews disagree with you.
Thank goodness for Jewish people like this.

Be honest with your selves. The hatred and hardness in your own hearts
and the unwillingness of people like you to admit mistakes, is the cause of the conflict.

you mention the rocket attacks only in as much to put on some pretense your being fair to israel by talking about the rocket attacks.

your own angle works agaisnt you. the oslo agreement was in 93.
Israel should get a medal for showing restraint so long given its military power against the continual attacks by people it has to live near.

any other power who wasnt as tolerant would have pushed those people into the sea long ago.

Okay. Lets look forward.

Everyone (including many Israelis) is working toward a Two State solution.
Peace based on the Green Line, the 67 border.
This includes Al-Asqa Mosque and East Jerusalem in Palestine.

Do you support that ?

alig wrote: And let's face it: 99% of Arabs and muslims hate the Jews. Why? Because it's in the "Quran". It's nohing more but the 6th century's "Mein Kampf". islam is based on amtisemitism. Why not blame Islam for a change? You are nothing but a useful ignoramus and antisemite.

Calm down Yankee!

1 - You are talking about Quran! Be careful.! Did you read it? No! Shut up!

2 - Antisemitism? I laugh at you! You give very classic reply.

-"Israel kills babies women, bombs hospitals mosques ambulances"
-"You shouldn't say anything about God's chosen people"
-"Why? Is to speak a sin? Weren't u a supporter freedom speech? Is there a line in the bible"
-"You are antisemistist.
-" But I didnt say anything about their religions! I only blame sionist regime"
-"Shut Up antisemitist!"

@ Are jews being killed in islam countries? Are their graveyards being destroyed? Are their temples being destroyed? Cant their asses be kicked on plane because of their race? *(In Islam countries) (Not talking about local events) Is there a systematic attack against jews? NO!

as i ve said before,. We should talk about american education system.What the hell do they teach you? I didnt know Hitler was muslim.i didnt know antisemitism was born in islam countries! In 1500's Christian Spanish king kicked them from Europe! Was he muslim? Who saved them? Muslims! I have some doubts about American education system..


There are a lot of jews that live in Iran.I dont think Ahmedinejad fans want to kill them..If they want, They can... But they they cant kill them, Because Islam forbids Racism! Because of that There is no antisemitism in islam countries..(I am not talking about local events.)

We all muslims hate sionists.I accept it! I am a muslim. """""There is no god except Allah and Muhammad is a messenger of Allah.""""" I am proud of It! And i hate sionist regime, not jews!

our prophet (sav) forbids racism EVEN in his last words

""""All People Are Equal

"O people,

"Your Rabb is One. And your father is one. You are all children of Adam; and Adam is made of soil. As there is no supermacy of an arab over an non-arab, or an non-arab over an arab, there is no supermacy of a red-skinned over a black-skinned or a black-skinned over a red-skinned. Superiority can only be in your takva (the degree of how much you are afraid of Allah). For Allah the most precious among you, is the one, who fears Allah the most.

"If a black slave with an broken stick is appointed as a superior over you, and he leads you with the book of Allah, so do listen to him and do obey him.

The Basic Of Justice

"The guilty one can only be accused for his guilt. The father cannot be accuse for what his son has done, and the son cannot be accused for what his father has done.

"Pay attention, not to do these four things definitely:

1. Do not take a partner to Allah!

2. Do not kill unjustely, what Allah has made haram or what Allah has forbidden you to touch!

3. Don't do adultery!

4. Don't steal!"""

-------------

And you learnt it! You can't change ISLAM! We are very happy! Islam is the second biggest religion of the world.After 9/11 muslim population has increased in Europe/America/Latin countries... Mexico gov sent a lot of missioneries to some zones..Why? because Islam means Peace.Islam Brings peace, justice That people need..

A N D

We muslims believe in Justice of God! You can have technology, a great life, a lot of money, strong army, you can wash brains using Media!You can f*** economy, destroy countries kill people ... You can make a great perfect Plan to have the world/. But you forget 1 important thing.... GOD HAS A PLAN TOO...

Regards...

glennjridge wrote:yeah.
the more some of these posters post, I see what a sham these people who consider themselves enlightened and liberal minded really are.

they treat their little pet project subjects like gay marriage and freedom from religion like a paris hilton treats her tiny dogs. just as an accessory. to make them look and feel good on the outside.

but when it comes down to it.... on the inside where it really counts......they are just run of the mill old fashioned anti-semitists.infected with this backwards,archaic,primitive dislike of der juden.

You are sinking!

glennjridge wrote:

if one is foolish enough to attack a greater power, you have no control over how the greater power will respond. what mixed up world do we live in where the one attacked has to care more for the other people when they are being attacked.

What the hell is the U.N doing? They havent blamed Israel yet! Israel bombed the UN school and killed 50 people..What has the UN done? Nothing! Why is the UN very passive against Jews? I think We should discuss the future of the U.N...

glennjridge wrote:I read the article. what do I think? I think if you read the article he is against Israel living there. so right there,he's put his cards on the table. reality is, Israel is living there,it was an agreement per the Oslo agreement, and time traveling back in time serves no purpose because Israel isnt leaving.so he's on a soapbox.

What the hell are you talking about?

Avi Shlaim is an Israeli, and a passionate supporter of Israel's right to exist. From the article:

"I write as someone who served loyally in the Israeli army in the mid-1960s and who has never questioned the legitimacy of the state of Israel within its pre-1967 borders."

How are you reading things that aren't there? I mean, it would explain a lot, but seriously... what? I honestly don't think you read past the first paragraph, or you wouldn't have written such a load of shite.

I did read the article.
did you?

what he did is no different from what greg does.EVERY writer who is going to be critical of something always starts off with that one line, you know....that one line where he/she makes a conssesion,something along the lines of "I think Israel has a right to exist".....but....

and then the rest of the argument he gets down to his true feelings by utitlizing the age old tactic of putting the blame on the victim....simply because the victim is bigger and successful.


"A rogue state habitually violates international law, possesses weapons of mass destruction and practises terrorism - the use of violence against civilians for political purposes."

"This is indeed a conflict between David and Goliath but the Biblical image has been inverted - a small and defenceless Palestinian David faces a heavily armed, merciless and overbearing Israeli Goliath."


all these points try and paint Israel as "merciless".....one that parctices "terrorism".the writer needs a history lesson. he should read about the nazi when oen TRULY practices terrorism and is merciless about those is suposedly dislikes.the palestinians dont know what its liek to come up against a state like that cause luckily.....Israel isnt like that

GalataPSB wrote:

glennjridge wrote:

if one is foolish enough to attack a greater power, you have no control over how the greater power will respond. what mixed up world do we live in where the one attacked has to care more for the other people when they are being attacked.

What the hell is the U.N doing? They havent blamed Israel yet! Israel bombed the UN school and killed 50 people..What has the UN done? Nothing! Why is the UN very passive against Jews? I think We should discuss the future of the U.N...

you just dont want to figure hamas in any of this do you.hamas hides within the civilian population and fires from it. the palestinians voted for the hamas. the bed is made they are now sleeping in it.

until a deity comes down from the sky, nobody says human war is like 2 people having a pistol duel at 50 paces. its messy, and the attacker has no control over the intensity of the victims response.