Pet Shop Boys Community

jamie1978 wrote: And when I found out that they wasted the opportunity of a third single by releasing THE WORST SONG POSSIBLE, I immediately said it was a mistake. I said it would utterly flop, and fail to sell more copies of Fundamental.

I was proved right.

Singles exists to promote albums. Not to satisfy the desires of strange fans who want a 'slow' single for the sake of 'balance'.

To be honest, anyone who defends Numbs release is totally detached from reality. It had 'failure' written all over it.

I agree with you that singles exist to promote albums - but that's also why I think Numb was the right choice as the third single. Although the likes of Integral and The Sodom and Gomorrah Show were more 'obvious' choices, neither song would appeal to anyone outside of the PSB fanbase. And bearing in mind fans would surely already own Fundamental, this would render releasing the aforementioned songs pointless.

Numb, on the other hand, had already generated some interest following its use in the BBC's World Cup montage and brought Fundamental back into the top 200 three days later. Not spectacular, granted, but there was interest there. Sky Sports also used Numb for a similar montage not long afterwards and the BBC used it again for snooker coverage last week, so it's clear people in broadcasting circles consider Numb as a moving piece of music.

Bearing this in mind, you can't blame PSB/EMI for thinking that Numb represented an outside - if not realistic - chance of resurrecting Fundamental's fortunes. After fans' favourite Minimal performed disappointingly, a different approach was needed. It didn't work but it's not the end of the world - and there's no evidence to suggest that Integral or S&G would have done any better.

jamie1978 wrote:

dVTB wrote:

jamie1978 wrote:Its true, Numb was a total and utter flop by anyones standards

the lowest selling PSB single ever, probably (6000 first week sales must be a record low for any single released in the past 20 years).

I date to say 'I told you so' but it seems all too fitting

It was ALWAYS going to be a flop, it was a really bad choice for a single. I mean, REALLY BAD.

Please quit the "told you so" attitude. You were the one who convinced us all that we weren't going to get a 3rd single in the first place. You were proved wrong.

And when I found out that they wasted the opportunity of a third single by releasing THE WORST SONG POSSIBLE, I immediately said it was a mistake. I said it would utterly flop, and fail to sell more copies of Fundamental.

I was proved right.

Singles exists to promote albums. Not to satisfy the desires of strange fans who want a 'slow' single for the sake of 'balance'.

To be honest, anyone who defends Numbs release is totally detached from reality. It had 'failure' written all over it.

Except I think you'll find it was released to give Concrete a push, not Fundamental.

Also - the "worst song possible" thing is merely your opinion, so you've been proved right only in your own mind. I love Numb and am delighted that it got a release - I couldn't give a hoot where it charts to be honest, I'm just pleased that I can still go out and buy PSB singles.

"I told you so"?!

Still yapping on about it then. You're the moron who stated "with complete confidence that it won't happen" (3rd single).

Do you suffer from selective amnesia as well as verbal diarrhea? Oh well, you do need to justify being full of shit anyway, eh.

gareth wrote:
Except I think you'll find it was released to give Concrete a push, not Fundamental.

Both, actually. And moreso Fundamental.

It failed on all accounts.

Rent wrote:"I told you so"?!

Still yapping on about it then. You're the moron who stated "with complete confidence that it won't happen" (3rd single).

Do you suffer from selective amnesia as well as verbal diarrhea? Oh well, you do need to justify being full of shit anyway, eh.

Are you just bitter because I said Numb would be a disaster, and it was?

jamie1978 wrote:

gareth wrote:
Except I think you'll find it was released to give Concrete a push, not Fundamental.

Both, actually. And moreso Fundamental.

It failed on all accounts.

So would a single be released mainly to assist promotion of:

A/ The album out a week later.................or

B? The album released months and months earlier?

Hmmmm...........let me think.

gareth wrote:So would a single be released mainly to assist promotion of:

A/ The album out a week later.................or

B? The album released months and months earlier?

Hmmmm...........let me think.

Hey, wasn't Numb released to promote PopArt?

gareth wrote:

jamie1978 wrote:

gareth wrote:
Except I think you'll find it was released to give Concrete a push, not Fundamental.

Both, actually. And moreso Fundamental.

It failed on all accounts.

So would a single be released mainly to assist promotion of:

A/ The album out a week later.................or

B? The album released months and months earlier?

Hmmmm...........let me think.

oh, you really don't get it, do you

What album was Numb released from? By your logic, Liberation was released to promote Disco 2.

Honestly, get a grip... Numb was released to promote Fundamental, and any press or radio play concerning the single would emphasise that fact.

A live album is a fan-only purchase. Its cheap to rush off a few thousand copies, get some free press in the form of reviews, and let the fanbase soak it up.

Fundamental is the album the 'general public' will buy, its the album a lot of studio time and money has been sunk into. Both the Pet Shop Boys and EMI want a return on that investment. It is the album a single release and the subsequent radio play are DESIGNED to promote.

Argueing this fact with me just makes you look stupid, tbh.

jamie1978 wrote:And when I found out that they wasted the opportunity of a third single by releasing THE WORST SONG POSSIBLE, I immediately said it was a mistake. I said it would utterly flop, and fail to sell more copies of Fundamental.

I was proved right.

Singles exists to promote albums. Not to satisfy the desires of strange fans who want a 'slow' single for the sake of 'balance'.

To be honest, anyone who defends Numbs release is totally detached from reality. It had 'failure' written all over it.

You were proved WRONG, not right.
Below is your original quote, posted in the week Minimal hit the charts:

What are you talking about? The album HAS dissapeared - its at number 184. The second single has failed to even push the album into the top 75.

You think selling 1000 copies of Fundamental will recover the cost of releasing Minimal? Forget it. Say goodbye to any chance of a third single.

You were the first one who was totally convinced that we wouldn't get a third single at all. Now you claim that you knew it all. You state the obvious; something *many* other people also predicted.

I don't defend the radio edit of Numb. I defend their choice to give it a try with a different kind of song (hence a slow song), after Minimal didn't make chart impression.

jamie1978 wrote:oh, you really don't get it, do you
What album was Numb released from? By your logic, Liberation was released to promote Disco 2.

In fact, you don't seem to get Gareth! He claims that Numb was released to promote Concrete, rather than Fundamental. Your comparison proves you didn't get his point. Liberation was released 5 months before Disco 2. Yesterday When I Was Mad was released 1 week before Disco 2, just like Numb is released 1 week before Concrete.

jamie1978 wrote:Honestly, get a grip... Numb was released to promote Fundamental, and any press or radio play concerning the single would emphasise that fact.

... which is why cd1 featured West End Girls live, taken from concrete. Which is why Parlophone sent out a newsletter about Numb, Concrete and A Life In Pop...

jamie1978 wrote:Fundamental is the album the 'general public' will buy, its the album a lot of studio time and money has been sunk into. Both the Pet Shop Boys and EMI want a return on that investment. It is the album a single release and the subsequent radio play are DESIGNED to promote. Argueing this fact with me just makes you look stupid, tbh.

It's funny how you always get personal at people, rather than discuss properly, which is what a forum is designed for. As you wrote yourself, even Minimal failed to get the album back into the charts. Also PSB aren't exactly around to promote the album; they are touring in the US.

dVTB wrote:

jamie1978 wrote:oh, you really don't get it, do you
What album was Numb released from? By your logic, Liberation was released to promote Disco 2.

In fact, you don't seem to get Gareth! He claims that Numb was released to promote Concrete, rather than Fundamental. Your comparison proves you didn't get his point. Liberation was released 5 months before Disco 2. Yesterday When I Was Mad was released 1 week before Disco 2, just like Numb is released 1 week before Concrete.

jamie1978 wrote:Honestly, get a grip... Numb was released to promote Fundamental, and any press or radio play concerning the single would emphasise that fact.

... which is why cd1 featured West End Girls live, taken from concrete. Which is why Parlophone sent out a newsletter about Numb, Concrete and A Life In Pop...

jamie1978 wrote:Fundamental is the album the 'general public' will buy, its the album a lot of studio time and money has been sunk into. Both the Pet Shop Boys and EMI want a return on that investment. It is the album a single release and the subsequent radio play are DESIGNED to promote. Argueing this fact with me just makes you look stupid, tbh.

It's funny how you always get personal at people, rather than discuss properly, which is what a forum is designed for. As you wrote yourself, even Minimal failed to get the album back into the charts. Also PSB aren't exactly around to promote the album; they are touring in the US.

Thanks DVTB

Jamie - why get personal eh? It's uneccessary and there is nothing wrong with either agreeing to differ or admitting that you're wrong. Most of us, me included, don't feel the need to start calling people stupid simply because we have different views - nor should you.

Let me give you one example to back up my side of the argument:

Pet Shop Boys appear on the Paul O'Grady show, the Numb video is shown and the single discussed, along with Concrete and A Life In Pop. Fundamental? Nope.

Numb was released to try and give the Boys a forum for the live album to be discussed and hell yeah, maybe sell one or two copies of Fundamental along the way. But to promote the album released months ago as opposed to that one week later, I don't think so.

Get off the soap box mate and play nicely, that's what we're here for.

Cheers

G