World Championship Snooker thread

[Patrick Bateman]

Yeah good point. The shake-up has really worked in my opinion; look at Jamie Jones, for instance. He looks like a great little player and he's currently only number 36 in the world. The only negative is when players with families decide that they don't want to travel around the world and subsequently drop down the rankings as happened with Ronnie. But I suppose for most of them the money will be in China anyway.....which is why Hendry was playing pool out there prior to the Crucible.

[Undertaker]

Yeah good point. The shake-up has really worked in my opinion; look at Jamie Jones, for instance. He looks like a great little player and he's currently only number 36 in the world. The only negative is when players with families decide that they don't want to travel around the world and subsequently drop down the rankings as happened with Ronnie. But I suppose for most of them the money will be in China anyway.....which is why Hendry was playing pool out there prior to the Crucible.

I think there are 5 tournaments in China next year . It will be interesting if they welcome Mark Allen

Also, didn't realise Hendry was 43. I think his son is pretty good. Maybe he is going to help him along and do a bit of commentatiing.

Also, happy birthday to the Whirlwind. 50 today! He's ranking is also very good for an oldie ;- #44. The nugget holding firm at #39

[BlueSwan]

Hendry was always my favourite player. I've always liked professional, cold, almost "perfect" athletes. I'm a huge Roger Federer fan too. However, I'm not really sad to see Hendry leave the game. Frankly, I think he lost a lot of fire for the game after winning his 7th world title. It hasn't really been the same since and these last few seasons have been a travesty for someone as great as him.

[Patrick Bateman]

The Carter-Jones match is fantastic. Carter keeps edging two ahead then Jones comes back at him. 6-5 now.

*edit* 6-6. Jones has got five of the top seven breaks in this year's tournament. Fanastic player and he comes out to I'm Sexy and I Know It which Bill Werbiniuk never got the chance to do.

[Patrick Bateman]

Ronnie's on fire!!!!!

[Undertaker]

He just seems to be able to step it up a level whenever he needs to. Robertson is struggling a bit though.

[Drico One]

Yes, but he's ground out two absolutely massive frames to reel Ronnie back to 9-7. Ronnie's looking imperious, but those two frames could be the most important of this year's championship. It's a huge ask to beat Ronnie from 5-9, but I'm impressed that he's made a good start at the attempt...

The winner comes from this.

Drico.

[Drico One]

Having heard Hendry explain his retirement, and having seen some of the comments he's made about his struggles in recent seasons, I'm convinced he never learned to accept his sporting mortality. Frankly, some of the remarks he made about playing qualifiers in empty cubicles smack of somebody with a sense of entitlement. I can fully understand the comedown from packed Crucibles, but his comments are almost contemptuous of his opponents and their families on their "big day" as he put it. A genuine sportsman would, in my view, see the excitement that others - and their relatives - feel when they play him as a massive compliment. I find him graceless.

In terms of the greatest debate, or what's of it, Cliff Thorburn reckons that Hendry was the greatest-ever player, but that Davis was the more complete player, more rounded. Hendry didn't need a safety game to dominate - Davis used his like a nuclear arsenal to complement his ability in the balls. I tend to agree with that assessment. Hendry changed the face of snooker by changing the balance between potting and safety play. That's what makes him great. From a personal perspective, he lacked personality. Davis always raised a wry eyebrow to his own persona, "boringly reliable" as his advert for a washing machine once went. Hendry's personality merely reflected his expression: blank.

Drico.

[Drico One]

11-8 to Ronnie. I think he has it now. Can he be stopped?

I think the Higgins exit and Hendry hullabaloo might just have helped to prime his competitive streak. Ronnie fancies himself as the greatest ever - but he hasn't got the titles to make the case for himself unanswerable. Yet.

Matthew Stevens will play the winner in what will be his sixth (!) world semi-final. There's a case to be advanced that his world championship form suggests he's the fourth best player of his generation after Higgins, O'Sullivan, and Williams. He has the unfortunate record of being the only man in history to twice lose a four-frame overnight lead in the world final.

I don't think he stands too much chance against Ronnie in this form, though.

Drico.

[Patrick Bateman]

I'd say Ronnie is the greatest of all time. His is the truly supreme talent. If he wins this year then he'll have four titles and is playing in arguably the most competitive epoch. He's certainly the greatest player I've ever seen when he's in full flow.

Of course the stats would indicate that Hendry is the 'greatest' because he dominated the sport for a decade and he probably is the consistently best player there's ever been.....but Ronnie in full flow is the greatest snooker player ever.

[Drico One]

If he can win another two titles, I think the case will be overwhelming. At the moment, I feel that his three titles just don't do his talent justice. But snooker is more than mere natural talent. It's not a potting contest - it's matchplay. John Higgins has been the pre-eminent matchplayer of this generation even if Ronnie is the most gifted player ever. It's why Davis comes out ahead of, say, Alex Higgins every time. So does Ray Reardon, actually.

I like Ronnie, though. He's utterly flawed. I like my geniuses to be nuts. Nobody should be able to carry the burden of that kind of talent without in some way feeling crushed by the weight.

Drico.

[Patrick Bateman]

Ronnie is clearly a snooker genius. I've never seen somebody compile breaks in the time he does so effortlessly; Terry Griffiths was good on him this afternoon, purring with admiration and awe. Yet for all that I still couldn't be certain that he'll win it now even though he clearly should on talent alone. That's what makes him so compelling.

[Drico One]

By the way, I hate the tyranny of statistics in these kinds of subjective discussions. There really is no greatest ever in something as emotionally-biased as sport. All of the greats bring something unique to the game. Saying x is greater than y is a little insulting to all of the other great players, in my view - especially when stats are used to make a definitive call.

Yes, Hendry won seven world titles - but would he have even existed if it wasn't for Alex Higgins, Steve Davis, and Jimmy White? Who inspired him? You can't really compare players across generations. You can only beat what's in front of you. Hendry was unquestionably the most successful player of his era. So was Steve Davis. So was Ray Reardon. Those three dominated their eras. That's all you can do. Interestingly, there was a generation gap between all three of them, so when Davis succeeded Reardon the change was seamless. Similarly when Hendry supplanted Davis. It was the natural order. Hendry hasn't really been dethroned as naturally. I think that's why he hasn't accepted that he's no longer the best and it doesn't matter that he isn't. O'Sullivan regularly humiliated Hendry without ever dominating the game as a whole. Higgins, likewise. I don't think Ronnie's really in a battle with Davis or Hendry for greatest of all time. He's in a battle with Higgins for best of his own era. And that's how it should be.

Drico.

[Drico One]

Ronnie is clearly a snooker genius. I've never seen somebody compile breaks in the time he does so effortlessly; Terry Griffiths was good on him this afternoon, purring with admiration and awe. Yet for all that I still couldn't be certain that he'll win it now even though he clearly should on talent alone. That's what makes him so compelling.

That sums him up. He's gifted, but flawed. It's as if he needs more natural talent than John Higgins to even compete with the latter's cooler temperament and tactical brilliance. Ronnie will always be a more compelling watch - but, as the roll of honour shows, not necessarily more successful.

In some ways, it's a tribute to Hendry that people like me find him tedious in his superiority. At this level, all of these guys can play and make massive breaks. It's the mind that separates them. That's why Reardon and Davis were so dominant. They were incredibly strong upstairs, both tactically and temperamentally. In my view, there's never been another sportsman to match Hendry's mental strength. Indestructible. As for Ronnie, it's just as well he's a genius on the baise. His opponents don't have to get into his head. Ronnie gets into his own head. He hears the voices. He might knock in a routine 147. Just as easily, he might walk off the table with the white flag flying when leading 5-1. Nuts.

Drico.

[Patrick Bateman]

The Carter-Jones match is great. Jones has pulled back to 12-10 and Carter was on the brink in the 23rd frame when Jones fluked an insane snooker.

12-11