Pet Shop Boys Community

patrick wrote:It's 1996 and Britpop is at a high. Along with that comes a parochialism primed for celebrating the home team. All of the major groups are namechecking the PSB as influences and a few have put out singles featuring them as guests (Blur/Suede). The last time the PSB were "around" they had a string of six triumphant singles and created a football anthem.

...and then they release Bilingual and trail it with Before and Se a Vida E. As far as boneheaded moves go, they really deserve a prize. If The Truck Driver and His Mate had been the lead single for a resequenced album they could easily have continued the success of the Very era. It was a sound that fit right in to the radio of the period and framed the PSB in terms Britpop understood. It's also a storming track that - given another verse - could easily have become a summer hit.

I like the fact that they were releasing Latin flavoured music at the zenith of Britpop - it's rather an elegant thing to do. Ultimately the two biggest groups from 1996 were Oasis and The Spice Girls so PSB's brand of intelligent pop wasn't ever going to appeal to the masses. Ab Fab might have been number one for seven weeks at the height of Spicemania though.

patrick wrote:It's 1996 and Britpop is at a high.

Truck-driver isn't britpop. It sort of tries to be, but fails miserably. Those liking britpop at the time would have laughed at this.

...and then they release Bilingual and trail it with Before and Se a Vida E. As far as boneheaded moves go, they really deserve a prize.

I agree with this. Before and Se A Vida E decidedly scared people away from buying the album. Those two singles tried to appeal to an audience that doesn't buy PSB albums. Problem is: the same thing would have happened with Truck-Driver. Honestly there aren't ANY really good singles choices on Bilingual, so what they needed to do was enjoy the fact that they were gauarnteed solid radio airplay at the time and then release a top quality track that would appeal to the type of people who are sympathetic to PSB. I'd have put out "Discoteca" as the first single. I'm not pretending that it would have been a massive hit, but it would have garnered respect and it wouldn't have scared prospective buyers away like Before and Se A Vida E did.

If The Truck Driver and His Mate had been the lead single for a resequenced album they could easily have continued the success of the Very era. It was a sound that fit right in to the radio of the period and framed the PSB in terms Britpop understood.

Radio wasn't a problem at the time. Everything they released got solid radio play. Everything they released up until and including Somewhere was A-listed at Radio 1.

It's also a storming track that - given another verse - could easily have become a summer hit.

I whole-heartedly disagree.

And I Didn't Get Where I am Today is the most radio friendly thing they'd done since Very. Especially if the gimmick was to promote a catalog of PSB singles by ironically diverging from their stereotypical sound, with a video to match.

It's yet another track where PSB try to be something they're not. Just like I Get Along, which you also think was a great single choice.

Singles are about more than going after a quick hit. It's about appealing to a segment of the population that are sympathetic towards you. The tracks that you mention scare more people away than they lure people in. They are all PSB trying to incorporate brit-pop elements in their sound and it doesn't sound right, quite frankly.

There's only one exception to this rule. The Sodom And Gomorrah Show incorporates some of the same elements as I Didn't Get Where I Am Today, yet it stays more true to the Pet Shop Boys sound. IT's PSB without being too much PSB. Now THAT would have ben a good single choice. I Didn't Get Where I Am Today, Truck-Driver and I Get Along would not.

I Get Along was their best single in six years. They should have led with it and shot a much better video though. As with Bilingual the timing was terrible. And it was going to take a lot to wash out the bitter aftertaste of Nightlife...

Aren't you forgetting that I Get Along is PSB's worst performing second single EVER? It barely scraped the UK top 20 and flopped miserably absolutely everywhere else. Even crap like Home And Dry got massive radio play in Denmark - I don't think I heard I Get Along even once on the radio. It performed so bad that EMI decided against releasing a third single from Release, despite "London" being a quite strong potential single.

BlueSwan wrote:Truck-driver isn't britpop. It sort of tries to be, but fails miserably. Those liking britpop at the time would have laughed at this.

I disagree. Britpop was a net wide enough to encompass Pulp after all. I utterly disagree that those liking Britpop at the time would have laughed at those two tracks from the Before EP. I remember the period very well and it was an exciting time to be in love with music. There was a euphoria in the air and that track would have fit right in to the mood. They would have done even better releasing it a year earlier.

I agree with this. Before and Se A Vida E decidedly scared people away from buying the album.

It didn't help that the album as sequenced is crap.

Those two singles tried to appeal to an audience that doesn't buy PSB albums. Problem is: the same thing would have happened with Truck-Driver.

Again, I disagree. The idea that there are people who "don't do PSB" was largely created by the whole Bilingual fiasco. Serving up Truck Driver as lead single would have been a masterstroke. Instead it was the first in a series of bungled singles choices that continues to this day.

It's yet another track where PSB try to be something they're not.

The PSB can be anything they want short of close-minded "fans" who just want bleeps and BPM. The songwriting on display is far superior than almost everything they'd put out for years. In fact setting up Bilingual with Truck Driver would have done more than appeal to the Britpop crowd - it would have considerably widened the Boys' sound as far as mainstream audiences are concerned. Instead they kowtowed to fans with rubbish like A Red Letter Day and New York City Boy and alienated everyone else by putting on the impression that they were tired stereotypes.

Aren't you forgetting that I Get Along is PSB's worst performing second single EVER?

Nope. It's still their best single in terms of songwriting since Very and again timing is an issue. It would have been a hit in 1996 but the timing is all wrong for 2002. Add in an overlooked album destroyed by the idiotic choice to release Home and Dry as a lead single, a video that in no way serves the song and an audience more fragmented than ever by Nightlife and the abject garbage that were its first two singles and frankly I think the only reason I Get Along got into the Top 20 in the first place is entirely down to its strength as a song.

BlueSwan wrote:Truck-driver isn't britpop. It sort of tries to be, but fails miserably. Those liking britpop at the time would have laughed at this.

I disagree. Britpop was a net wide enough to encompass Pulp after all. I utterly disagree that those liking Britpop at the time would have laughed at those two tracks from the Before EP. I remember the period very well and it was an exciting time to be in love with music. There was a euphoria in the air and that track would have fit right in to the mood. They would have done even better releasing it a year earlier.

I agree with this. Before and Se A Vida E decidedly scared people away from buying the album.

It didn't help that the album as sequenced is crap.

Those two singles tried to appeal to an audience that doesn't buy PSB albums. Problem is: the same thing would have happened with Truck-Driver.

Again, I disagree. The idea that there are people who "don't do PSB" was largely created by the whole Bilingual fiasco. Serving up Truck Driver as lead single would have been a masterstroke. Instead it was the first in a series of bungled singles choices that continues to this day.

It's yet another track where PSB try to be something they're not.

The PSB can be anything they want short of close-minded "fans" who just want bleeps and BPM. The songwriting on display is far superior than almost everything they'd put out for years. In fact setting up Bilingual with Truck Driver would have done more than appeal to the Britpop crowd - it would have considerably widened the Boys' sound as far as mainstream audiences are concerned. Instead they kowtowed to fans with rubbish like A Red Letter Day and New York City Boy and alienated everyone else by putting on the impression that they were tired stereotypes.

The idea that the PSB should limit their sound is ghastly. Release was a breath of fresh air and adding brass on Fundamental was inspired. I hope these new directions become staple elements of their sound going forward. The option is In Private and frankly I'd rather shoot myself first.

Aren't you forgetting that I Get Along is PSB's worst performing second single EVER?

Nope. It's still their best single in terms of songwriting since Very and again timing is an issue. It would have been a hit in 1996 but the timing is all wrong for 2002. Add in an overlooked album destroyed by the idiotic choice to release the bland snoozefest Home and Dry as a lead single, a video that in no way serves the song and an audience more fragmented than ever by Nightlife and the abject garbage that were its first two singles and frankly I think the only reason I Get Along got into the Top 20 in the first place is entirely down to its strength as a song.

patrick wrote:I disagree. Britpop was a net wide enough to encompass Pulp after all. I utterly disagree that those liking Britpop at the time would have laughed at those two tracks from the Before EP. I remember the period very well and it was an exciting time to be in love with music. There was a euphoria in the air and that track would have fit right in to the mood. They would have done even better releasing it a year earlier.

The thing is: The Truck-Driver is corny as hell. Those guitar-samples would make any rock fan either run for cover or laugh his ass off. The tune itself is catchy, but they'd have to seriously rethink the production. The lyrics doesn't make it any less corny though - even if lyrics has little to no relevance when it comes to chart succes.

It didn't help that the album as sequenced is crap.

That didn't hurt Bilingual's sales, though, since only those who actually bought the album would no about the poor sequencing.

Again, I disagree. The idea that there are people who "don't do PSB" was largely created by the whole Bilingual fiasco.

You're wrong. With acts that are as famous and has been going for as long a time as PSB have, you have to accept that most people on some level has made their minds up about PSB, just like you have made your mind up about somebody like AC/DC. Think about it - if AC/DC tomorrow put out a record that you like, would you go out and buy their album? I bet you wouldn't, unless you actually quite liked them already.

In fact setting up Bilingual with Truck Driver would have done more than appeal to the Britpop crowd - it would have considerably widened the Boys' sound as far as mainstream audiences are concerned.

Keep dreaming!

Instead they kowtowed to fans with rubbish like A Red Letter Day and New York City Boy and alienated everyone else by putting on the impression that they were tired stereotypes.

A Red Letter Day, yes, but New York City Boy was NOT a fansingle by any means - it was PSB trying to write a hit single. Infact it sort of worked - New York city boy is their biggest worldwide hit since Go West, don't let the fact that it bombed in the UK fool you. That doesn't mean that it was necessarily a great single choice as it didn't seem to shift any albums. It did infact, as you say, cast them as stereotypes. I've always felt that Go West, while being a huge hit and a track that sold lots of albums, also took away much of their credibility for good. Prior to Go West, PSB was actually a band that it was rather cool to like and a band which it was at leat OK to like amongst the rock crowd. Go West changed that.

Nope. It's still their best single in terms of songwriting since Very and again timing is an issue. It would have been a hit in 1996 but the timing is all wrong for 2002.

Listen to yourself though. You acknowlegde that the timing for I Get Along was wrong, yet you still think it should have been the first single from Release?

frankly I think the only reason I Get Along got into the Top 20 in the first place is entirely down to its strength as a song.

You've got to be kidding me. Songs that chart on behalf of their strength stick around the charts. I Get Along sold to the fanbase ONLY, hence it's terrible chart run and low peak position. Had it sold anything on the "strength of the song", then it would easily have been top 10 at a dead period of the year and with the significant fanbase PSB has, that ensures every single release a top 20 placing.

daveid wrote:Release is a really good album but maybe the least good of the 8 (I haven't heard Fundamental yet).

Why not?, what are you waiting for?

Haven't any of you forgotten that I get along was ruined by a shitty edit?

The problem with Release, from a commercial point of view, is that there aren't any great singles on it. The best tracks (for me, LIAC and Birthday Boy) would have struggled in the singles chart.

As an album, though, I've always liked Release and listen to it far more than Nightlife, Very or Please. I wish PSB had dropped TNIFIL and replaced it with Always, which is one of the most beautiful tracks they've ever written (and criminally wasted as the B-side to H&D) and worked harder on Here (sounds like a demo to my ears). Then Release would have been right up there with the best of the PSB albums.

BlueSwan wrote:The thing is: The Truck-Driver is corny as hell.

So is Country House and any number of Britpop singles we could name.

Those guitar-samples would make any rock fan either run for cover or laugh his ass off.

Except for all those who've heard it and haven't, obviously. Scenes have context and everyone would have been aware of the Very era. In this light the sampled guitars become part of the fun.

That didn't hurt Bilingual's sales, though, since only those who actually bought the album would no about the poor sequencing.

Word of mouth.

With acts that are as famous and has been going for as long a time as PSB have, you have to accept that most people on some level has made their minds up about PSB, just like you have made your mind up about somebody like AC/DC.

I just don't buy this for major crossover acts. I generally avoid U2 and yet I bought Achtung Baby because I liked some of the singles. The PSB were in this category after Very although of course nowadays they're much more niche.

if AC/DC tomorrow put out a record that you like, would you go out and buy their album?

I've done this on a number of occasions actually. I don't think mass market buyers fall into the firm camps that hardcore music fans do. There's much more crossover.

You acknowlegde that the timing for I Get Along was wrong, yet you still think it should have been the first single from Release?

I think I Didn't Get Where I am Today should have been the first single. Failing that, I believe I Get Along would have performed better as the lead single despite the general timing because as it was it was fighting against Home and Dry, which didn't exactly promise anything new or exciting.

You've got to be kidding me. Songs that chart on behalf of their strength stick around the charts. I Get Along sold to the fanbase ONLY, hence it's terrible chart run and low peak position.

Unless you have actual unit numbers you're not going to get anywhere on this tack.

Had it sold anything on the "strength of the song", then it would easily have been top 10 at a dead period of the year and with the significant fanbase PSB has, that ensures every single release a top 20 placing.

Like Was it Worth it? It's easy to ignore context, which is what you need to do to satisfy your electronic bias. But the fact of the matter is that Nightlife devastated the PSB and that the new album was trailed with a disastrously boring first single. Anything less than I Get Along would have performed far worse at that point.

All IMO obviously.

I get along had a stupid vid which just couldnt appeal to anyone and yeh crap edit. the same with Home an dry as great song but what a shitty way to try and people ...here watch some mice thatll make you wanna buy some of our stuff! and then other songs were good but sounded depressing i.e you choose, love is a catrastophe, Birtrhday Boy


and when nearly every fan put that album and I get along finished i think they actually had to check they were listening to PSB!

some fans just aren't happy until they release an album of It's A Sin type songs

I'm glad they havent done this

love Bilingual/Release/Fun/Night

But I would love to see another Very style album... something bright, light and synth pop...

hands up who's bored by "they should have done this" talk

I think the trouble with Release is there's loads of great growers but nothing that catches people straight away.

patrick wrote:It's easy to ignore context, which is what you need to do to satisfy your electronic bias.

I don't have much of an electronic bias. My favourite tracks (by a mile) on Release are Birthday Boy and Love Is A Catastrophe, while Boy Strange is possibly my favourite track on Nightlife. Hardly the most electronic sounding tracks on those two albums. What I am biased against is dull radiooriented rockpop. There are thousands of groups that produce this type of music and lots of them do it far better than PSB.

If AC/DC had a dance track for their next album, maybe some of their fans would claim that it should be released since "dance is big". THat would probably be nonsense, since there's no reason to believe that an AC/DC dance track would be any good.

But the fact of the matter is that Nightlife devastated the PSB

I disagree. Bilingual devastated the PSB. That's where the big fan falloff came. Compared to Very, few people bought Bilingual and it seemed that those who did so were less inclined to do so again. Nightlife failed to reignite PSB's career, but it wasn't the cause of their downfall by a long shot.

and that the new album was trailed with a disastrously boring first single.

I agree about that. As someone else so rightly said, one problem with Release was that the best tracks weren't really obvious singles, although I think a radio edit of Birthday Boy and London were decent choices. I'll give you that I Get Along is very very catchy and it would have been a good single in 1996. It definitely wasn't a good single in 2002 though.

Bilingual devastated the PSB.

I totally disagree. They aren't the kind of group who could maintain a teenage audience easily beyond their 80s beginings. With time they needed to diversify and contemporise their act. So they did. And they are with us now because of it.