Pet Shop Boys Community

Drico One wrote:

Fugitive1979 wrote:

Drico One wrote:Only if he has a chip on his shoulder (and I don't believe he does). But I digress...
If Scots are so annoyed by this kind of perceived slight, why don't you just go away and declare independence like we did?

So, basically, you are saying that if us Scots don't like the ignorance of people who can't tell the difference between England and the UK, then we can sod off?

No, I'm wondering why if you feel so strongly about your national identity why you don't declare independence. That would make it a lot easier for the ignorant to differentiate.

Drico One wrote:As much as I like geographical precision, it's hard to expect people from half way around the world to always know the difference between what are, essentially, provinces of the United Kingdom. Indeed, most people outside of the UK do not refer to it as such, and many are referring to the collective when they use England. The English are the dominant culture in the UK and people around the world recognise that.

Fugitive1979 wrote:No, Drico, it is plain pig-ignorance.

Sorry, Fugitive, but Scotland isn't a separate country and your culture is not the dominant one in the United Kingdom. While it may be ignorant for people in this part of the world to fail to differentiate between Scotland and England or to understand that England isn't the UK, or to recognise the significance of Scottish culture in the UK, many people around the world see Scotland in the same light as they see Bavaria or Brandenburg or Galicia (i.e., they really don't see it at all in the context of the dominant culture or political entity).

Drico.

Thanks Drico for the last paragraph...as my English is not that good, I was struggling to come up with a satisfactory answer but always abandoning the process in half because I was very busy and you expressed my thoughts in a much neater way than I could come up with...yes to the outside world, Wales, Scotland etc all are referred as England. Maybe we should change it to the UK but I am yet to find someone in my home country (or in Kuwait. where I travel very frequently) who calls it UK except for history books and texts (or some maps to be honest)...With that use we (or at least I) never mean to demean or ignore Wales or Scottish culture or shower praise upon praise on English culture but it is a very useful and easy reference for "United Kingdom" originated things, and to be honest I cannot be bothered with checking into the detailed history of over one hundred countries around the world while there are many other more serious vital things around me to ponder and puzzle....

Perhaps we should add Catalonia or Basque to the list...To me they are all Spain...

Drico One wrote:Sorry, Fugitive, but Scotland isn't a separate country and your culture is not the dominant one in the United Kingdom. While it may be ignorant for people in this part of the world to fail to differentiate between Scotland and England or to understand that England isn't the UK, or to recognise the significance of Scottish culture in the UK, many people around the world see Scotland in the same light as they see Bavaria or Brandenburg or Galicia (i.e., they really don't see it at all in the context of the dominant culture or political entity).

Drico.

You are missing the point entirely. Although I am being labelled as being in England when someone describes the whole as England, that is not my problem. My problem is that people are failing to acknowledge the UK and insist on calling the UK 'England', because England is the biggest part. This is just ignorant.

Drico One wrote:No, I'm wondering why if you feel so strongly about your national identity why you don't declare independence. That would make it a lot easier for the ignorant to differentiate.

As someone who was born in England and raised in Scotland by Scottish and English parents, I have developed a strong national identity. I am proud to consider myself Scottish, but I am a citizen of the UK.

Don't get me started on independence.

Drico One wrote:
No, I'm wondering why if you feel so strongly about your national identity why you don't declare independence. That would make it a lot easier for the ignorant to differentiate

Is Ireland independent?

Drico One wrote:And The Netherlands instead of Holland. Strange how Trainspotting neglected the difference.

Drico.

Or the 'Republic of Ireland', instead of 'Ireland'.

Minimalizm wrote:Perhaps we should add Catalonia or Basque to the list...To me they are all Spain...

Yes, that's right, and you call it Spain. Same as England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are all UK, yet you call it England.

Fugitive1979 wrote:You are missing the point entirely. Although I am being labelled as being in England when someone describes the whole as England, that is not my problem. My problem is that people are failing to acknowledge the UK and insist on calling the UK 'England', because England is the biggest part. This is just ignorant.

I'm afraid it's you who is missing the point. It's not necessarily ignorant at all for some people to refer to the UK as England. Doing so is to simply use the common pars pro toto device, i.e., to use a part to refer to the whole. Pars pro toto.

While I personally would not refer to the UK as England (because I live in a part of the world that has strong cultural ties to all of the UK and can take account of ethnic sensitivities), it is not unreasonable for somebody from, say, Turkey to refer to the UK as England for reasons already stated - and it is far less ignorant for them to do so than it would be for a Scot to call The Netherlands Holland (though that's hardly a capital offence). This is common practice all over the world (after all, many people here refer to the USA as America). As I said, if Scotland were an independent country, you would get less of it - but you'll never eliminate it entirely. Ireland, for example, is often lumped in with England - but I don't have a big issue with that.

Drico.

Paddymacall wrote:

Drico One wrote:
No, I'm wondering why if you feel so strongly about your national identity why you don't declare independence. That would make it a lot easier for the ignorant to differentiate

Is Ireland independent?

The Republic certainly is - and Ireland is the official name of the Republic. So, in short, yes.

Drico.

Fugitive1979 wrote:

Drico One wrote:And The Netherlands instead of Holland. Strange how Trainspotting neglected the difference.

Drico.

Or the 'Republic of Ireland', instead of 'Ireland'.

Did Trainspotting refer to our football team too?

Drico.

Drico One wrote:

Paddymacall wrote:

Drico One wrote:
No, I'm wondering why if you feel so strongly about your national identity why you don't declare independence. That would make it a lot easier for the ignorant to differentiate

Is Ireland independent?

The Republic certainly is.

Drico.

Oh, your one of those.

I'm whatever you want me to be, baby.

Drico.

Drico One wrote:I'm whatever you want me to be, baby.

Drico.

Can I say "sell out"?

LOL! You can say what you like, my little plastic leprechaun.

Drico.

Drico One wrote:LOL! You can say what you like, my little plastic leprechaun.

Drico.

LOL!!!!

Drico One wrote:I'm afraid it's you who is missing the point.

Trust me, it's you that's missed the point, and no amount of big words and Latin phrases is going to change that. If you were a UK citizen, which you're not, then you would get the point. I'm afraid that living in a country with fairly close cultural ties just doesn't cut the mustard. Your intelligence is highly admirable, but that doesn't always make you right.
The value of the name 'UK' is being degraded as it is from within. We don't need those who are outwith the UK to help it along.

Thanking you, ta.

Fugitive1979 wrote:

Drico One wrote:I'm afraid it's you who is missing the point.

Trust me, it's you that's missed the point, and no amount of big words and Latin phrases is going to change that. If you were a UK citizen, which you're not, then you would get the point. I'm afraid that living in a country with fairly close cultural ties just doesn't cut the mustard. Your intelligence is highly admirable, but that doesn't always make you right.
The value of the name 'UK' is being degraded as it is from within. We don't need those who are outwith the UK to help it along.

Thanking you, ta.

I see where you are coming from though.