Pet Shop Boys Community

Patrick Bateman wrote: Sat 20 Oct 2018, 9:03 pm How tediously predictable. I wonder how many of the new songs will document his monomania with the failed European superstate.

“If a democracy cannot change its mind, it ceases to be a democracy”

David Davis 2012

Sew that into your Union Jack underpants...

daveid wrote: Sun 21 Oct 2018, 9:33 am “If a democracy cannot change its mind, it ceases to be a democracy”

David Davis 2012

So true. Also, nobody knew what they were even voting on exactly back then. The shape of the negotiations so far is making nobody happy.

Both sides should reserve the right to vote again on the final outcome.

jasonjohn wrote: Sun 21 Oct 2018, 10:57 am nobody knew what they were even voting on exactly back then.

Anyone who didn't know what they were voting on is pretty dense.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/shepard4711/26658064733

joe stalin wrote: Sun 21 Oct 2018, 5:32 am Very predictable although I do hope this isn’t the first sign of dementia. That would be a shame for someone so undeniably intelligent.

Perhaps someone needs to remind Neil. There was a people’s vote

Remain lost.

We leave the EU

Let’s move on

lol...

jasonjohn wrote: Sun 21 Oct 2018, 10:57 am

daveid wrote: Sun 21 Oct 2018, 9:33 am “If a democracy cannot change its mind, it ceases to be a democracy”

David Davis 2012

So true. Also, nobody knew what they were even voting on exactly back then. The shape of the negotiations so far is making nobody happy.

Both sides should reserve the right to vote again on the final outcome.

It is a mess isn't it?

lol the peoples vote. Jesus wept. This Country is on its knees. Imagine a game of Monopoly with a remainer. We'd be there all week.

Good title

“We have written a song called Give Stupidity a Chance which is a satire. It’s close to a protest song, but it’s also funny.”

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2018/ ... ion-lyrics

----

I have to say that I'm very sad reading the way you attack Neil with your sentences but apart from that I want to say something.

The referendum was a state of mind in a particular moment, the Brexit won by a narrow margin. After that, diplomacy movements were very difficult, May is having a lot of problems even with their political colleagues and now the Brexit is being a big problem more than a solution in UK.

The democracy is not bick rock, it's just the opposite. It's a changing social movement which tries to improve the sitations of the citizens all the time. Adapting itself in order to reach the best option according to the circumstances. If you don't have clear this concept, you don't understand the real sense of the word democracy.

So a second referendum wouldn't be a bad thing taking into account the situation right now and the real crisis of the British goverment because of Brexit. There is an unexpected situation and the media didn't say a word about that to British people when the referendum started, did they?. It's obvious there was a misinformation about what's happening right now, they didn't predict all these situations.

Patrick Bateman wrote: Sun 21 Oct 2018, 11:07 am

jasonjohn wrote: Sun 21 Oct 2018, 10:57 am nobody knew what they were even voting on exactly back then.

Anyone who didn't know what they were voting on is pretty dense.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/shepard4711/26658064733

Exactly Patrick, and it was made clear time and time again that leaving the European Union meant leaving the single market and customs union, it couldn't have been made clearer yet there are still those that choose to be ignorant to that fact, even Jeremy Corbyn supported and fully acknowledged that (being the Eurosceptic he is, or should I say was until he saw Brexit as a way to try and overturn the government which says all you need to know about him and his party!).

The negotiations have shown up the EU as to exactly what they are all about, they want total control and do not want countries like Britain to flourish outside of their jurisdiction. It is a total disgrace, I want Britain to leave but I don't want the EU to fail and I want a trade deal put in place which will benefit all parties (especially the EU as we have a trade deficit with them which is not a small detail!), something incredibly easy but something the EU does not want to do because for some utterly bizarre reason they 'fear' Britain being a success (which it will be) and it is as outrageous as it is pathetic.

If we have those here that refuse to accept the biggest ever democratic vote in our history then quite frankly we are doomed as a country, if we had all worked together to make sure we got a fair deal it would have been oh so much easier but the EU has seen a chance to collaborate (been plenty of meeting with remainers in Brussels which is totally disgusting as far as I'm concerned) with remain supporting politicians and are using this as a way to cause as much political discontent as possible and they should be held fully accountable for that.

I now favour a no deal with no 'divorce payment' and any pathetic punishment measures the EU put into place against Britain should be countered with the same from us and we will then see how the German car makers and other EU businesses that rely so much on British trade react to that. This is about long-term gain and I am fully aware that Britain might suffer a bit (perhaps?) in the short term but this great country is more than powerful enough to get through and flourish without the need to be under the control of the European Union dictatorship and it's power hungry leaders.

Please rename this topic to "Brexit arguments" in order for me to know not to click on it. Cheers and thank you!

Future Lover wrote: Sun 21 Oct 2018, 5:47 pm Please rename this topic to "Brexit arguments" in order for me to know not to click on it. Cheers and thank you!

Alternatively you can click back and know to avoid it in the future if it offends you in some (bizarre) way? Just saying....

nickname wrote: Sun 21 Oct 2018, 3:49 pm
I have to say that I'm very sad reading the way you attack Neil with your sentences but apart from that I want to say something.

The referendum was a state of mind in a particular moment, the Brexit won by a narrow margin. After that, diplomacy movements were very difficult, May is having a lot of problems even with their political colleagues and now the Brexit is being a big problem more than a solution in UK.

The democracy is not bick rock, it's just the opposite. It's a changing social movement which tries to improve the sitations of the citizens all the time. Adapting itself in order to reach the best option according to the circumstances. If you don't have clear this concept, you don't understand the real sense of the word democracy.

So a second referendum wouldn't be a bad thing taking into account the situation right now and the real crisis of the British goverment because of Brexit. There is an unexpected situation and the media didn't say a word about that to British people when the referendum started, did they?. It's obvious there was a misinformation about what's happening right now, they didn't predict all these situations.

Strangely enough I have never previously been consulted on any aspect of UK or EU policy, so I fail to see why I would be consulted on the specific detail of the UK's withdrawal from the EU. It was a pretty straightforward question, both sides employed misinformation and I voted accordingly. Unfortunately, a predominantly working-class electorate voted for something which a predominantly middle-class electorate did not want - ergo the sour grapes.

It's a shame that Neil wasn't on the anti-war march in 2003 but then he was in favour of invading Iraq at the time. However, like the classic liberal he is, he changed his mind and wrote a song about how stupid George Bush is. What's that new song called again?

joe stalin wrote: Sun 21 Oct 2018, 5:32 am Very predictable although I do hope this isn’t the first sign of dementia. That would be a shame for someone so undeniably intelligent.

Perhaps someone needs to remind Neil. There was a people’s vote

Remain lost.

We leave the EU

Let’s move on

True, but the ‘people’ are fickle and can hold as many votes as they want. And since, in a democracy, the people are God they can change their mind when ever they so choose. The tyranny of the majority is only as strong as the latest poll/vote. Democracy is a double edge sword that cuts both ways. There is no right or wrong only the will of the sovereign people. We must not forget that the stupid/ignorant/dull also have the right to vote. Hell, millions of Germans actually voted for the Nazis.

MD wrote: Mon 22 Oct 2018, 1:53 am

joe stalin wrote: Sun 21 Oct 2018, 5:32 am Very predictable although I do hope this isn’t the first sign of dementia. That would be a shame for someone so undeniably intelligent.

Perhaps someone needs to remind Neil. There was a people’s vote

Remain lost.

We leave the EU

Let’s move on

True, but the ‘people’ are fickle and can hold as many votes as they want. And since, in a democracy, the people are God they can change their mind when ever they so choose. The tyranny of the majority is only as strong as the latest poll/vote. Democracy is a double edge sword that cuts both ways. There is no right or wrong only the will of the sovereign people. We must not forget that the stupid/ignorant/dull also have the right to vote. Hell, millions of Germans actually voted for the Nazis.

Here we go again! 'millions of people voted for the Nazis'. Comparing Brexit to the Nazis!!!!! You just can't make this shit up! I suggest you do some research on history and maybe you will learn that it really is quite offensive, ridiculous and absolutely outrageous to try and use the Nazis as a way to justify some kind of disdain for democracy when things like Brexit doesn't go the way you or others wanted it to.

And yes, there are plenty of stupid/ignorant and dull people out there. The kind of people that reference the Nazis when democracy doesn't go their way for example. Pathetic. I do agree though that people have every right to change their mind and opinion on things. The simple fact of the matter though is that Brexit has not happened yet so you can hardly overturn a decision made that hasn't even been implemented now can you???

Democracy is not something that only applies when it goes the way you want it to. Sadly there are many people in this great country that choose to ignore that and are willing to use all kinds of tactics in order to try and back themselves up. Utter disgrace.

JSDOUVRES wrote: Mon 22 Oct 2018, 4:13 pm

MD wrote: Mon 22 Oct 2018, 1:53 am

joe stalin wrote: Sun 21 Oct 2018, 5:32 am Very predictable although I do hope this isn’t the first sign of dementia. That would be a shame for someone so undeniably intelligent.

Perhaps someone needs to remind Neil. There was a people’s vote

Remain lost.

We leave the EU

Let’s move on

True, but the ‘people’ are fickle and can hold as many votes as they want. And since, in a democracy, the people are God they can change their mind when ever they so choose. The tyranny of the majority is only as strong as the latest poll/vote. Democracy is a double edge sword that cuts both ways. There is no right or wrong only the will of the sovereign people. We must not forget that the stupid/ignorant/dull also have the right to vote. Hell, millions of Germans actually voted for the Nazis.

Here we go again! 'millions of people voted for the Nazis'. Comparing Brexit to the Nazis!!!!! You just can't make this shit up! I suggest you do some research on history and maybe you will learn that it really is quite offensive, ridiculous and absolutely outrageous to try and use the Nazis as a way to justify some kind of disdain for democracy when things like Brexit doesn't go the way you or others wanted it to.

And yes, there are plenty of stupid/ignorant and dull people out there. The kind of people that reference the Nazis when democracy doesn't go their way for example. Pathetic. I do agree though that people have every right to change their mind and opinion on things. The simple fact of the matter though is that Brexit has not happened yet so you can hardly overturn a decision made that hasn't even been implemented now can you???

Democracy is not something that only applies when it goes the way you want it to. Sadly there are many people in this great country that choose to ignore that and are willing to use all kinds of tactics in order to try and back themselves up. Utter disgrace.

Hear hear.

Did Neil really support the Iraq war in 2003? Is there a source on this?