Pet Shop Boys Community

dVTB wrote:The post below is a typical example of one person's opinion, which is certainly not representing a wide audience.

Well, as they say one man's meat is another man's poison!

DJ Fairborne wrote: Where it went wrong for PSB was the "Bilingual" album. 3 of the 4 singles were poor, with "A Red Letter Day" being one of the worst songs PSB have ever recorded in my opinion. "Single-Bilingual" was the only decent single from this album, why "The Survivors" wasn't released as a single I'll never know! Even PSB agree about this now. "Somewhere" was alright, but wasn't a real 'return to form' as it comes close to being a bit over-produced and therefore slightly average.

dVTB wrote:Bilingual gave the boys 4 UK Top 10 hits, one more than Very did. "Before", hated by so many PSB fans, hit #7, Se A Vida E went to #8, A Red Letter Day (which *I* consider PSB's best single ever) hit #9 (very good for a 4th single from an album!) and so did Somewhere. The song you call the only decent single, is in fact the only one to MISS the UK Top 10. The Survivors (my all-time favourite PSB song) is perhaps not single material.

Bilingual may have given the boys 4 UK Top 10 hits, but how long did they stick around for? Before went in at #7, then fell to #22 the following week, A red letter day went in at #9, but fell spectacularly out of the entire Top 40 the following week, landing at #42. Somewhere entered at #9, but fell to #25 the next week. Only, SAVE stuck around for a few weeks. The singles off Very were vastly superior regardless of chart position, as Liberation, IWKDTOK and Yesterday, when I was mad are far better than anything off Bilingual. Anyway, chart positions means diddly squat anyway, look at "Being Boring" one of PSB's best ever songs, it stalled at #20!

DJ Fairborne wrote:"Nightlife" was a slightly better album, and had some great tracks such as "Vampires", "Radiophonic" and "Closer To Heaven" on it, and the comeback single, "I Don't Know What You Want But I Can't Give It Anymore" was superb, but sadly the 2 other singles off this album were average, as was the rest of the album.

dVTB wrote:Errr... superb? Then why did it only hit #15 in the UK? Previous lead singles Can you forgive her? and Before both made #7. I don't know what you want but I can't give it any more is the biggest commercial flop of their career, ruining the potential of a very good album.

Again, chart positions mean nothing. I don't know what you want but I can't give it any more is superb and surely "Being Boring" is regarded at the biggest commercial flop of their career anyway, which itself is a travesty.

DJ Fairborne wrote:Of course, the gaps between albums were getting longer, we'd waited 2 years for "Nightlife" and then after that, we had a 2 1/2 year wait until "Release" was er... released.

dVTB wrote:This is, in fact, totally untrue. The gap between Bilingual and Nightlife was approximately 3 years. The gap between Nightlife and Release was indeed 2½ years.

Yeah, it was was 3 years you are correct. Also, we had to wait 3 years between "Behaviour" and "Very".

DJ Fairborne wrote: Anyway, the real 'return to form' for PSB (as far as I'm concerned anyway) was when they returned in 2003, with "Miracles" which is an absolutely fantastic single in my opinion and fully deserved it's Top 10 position, shame it didn't go any higher as it's a great song! "Flamboyant" was a good single too.

As for the future of PSB, well who knows? I'm looking forward to the new album next year and if it's anything as good as "Miracles", then I think we're all in for a good time! Shame that by the time it's released, we would've had to wait 4 years for it though...

dVTB wrote:Agreed here. Although you shouldn't forget that the new material on Disco 3 plus the new material of the PopArt era is enough to fill an album with.

Very true, thanks for your comments.

jamie1978 wrote:Wolverine, I can't agree with you I'm afraid.


That said, I think Nightlife absolutely pisses over their first few albums.

someone should go and have a lie down i think

DJ Fairborne wrote:

dVTB wrote:Bilingual gave the boys 4 UK Top 10 hits, one more than Very did. "Before", hated by so many PSB fans, hit #7, Se A Vida E went to #8, A Red Letter Day hit #9 (very good for a 4th single from an album!) and so did Somewhere. The song you call the only decent single, is in fact the only one to MISS the UK Top 10. The Survivors is perhaps not single material.

Bilingual may have given the boys 4 UK Top 10 hits, but how long did they stick around for? Before went in at #7, then fell to #22 the following week, A red letter day went in at #9, but fell spectacularly out of the entire Top 40 the following week, landing at #42. Somewhere entered at #9, but fell to #25 the next week. Only, SAVE stuck around for a few weeks. The singles off Very were vastly superior regardless of chart position, as Liberation, IWKDTOK and Yesterday, when I was mad are far better than anything off Bilingual. Anyway, chart positions means diddly squat anyway, look at "Being Boring" one of PSB's best ever songs, it stalled at #20!

The low chart position for Being Boring doesn't say much about the song's qualities. It just shows that it's not a typical single (see my comment about The Survivors).

DJ Fairborne wrote:

dVTB wrote:Errr... (I don't know what you want but I can't give it any more) superb? Then why did it only hit #15 in the UK? Previous lead singles Can you forgive her? and Before both made #7. I don't know what you want but I can't give it any more is the biggest commercial flop of their career, ruining the potential of a very good album.

Again, chart positions mean nothing. I don't know what you want but I can't give it any more is superb and surely "Being Boring" is regarded at the biggest commercial flop of their career anyway, which itself is a travesty.

I smell a contradiction. You slag off the Bilingual singles, informing us that Before fell to #22 in its second week, and A red letter day fell to #42. May I remind you that the 'superb' I don't know what you want but I can't give it any more, in fact the *lead single* of a new album, was at #38 in its second week? And just like A red letter day (which was the 4th single from an album), it spent just three weeks inside the Top 75.

With the exception of I Get Along and the 'only decent single from Bilingual' named Single-Bilingual, these 4 songs are the only PSB singles to spend just 3 weeks inside the Top 75.

So either A red letter day is just as 'superb' and 'decent' as I don't know what you want but I can't give it any more and S-B, or you admit that I don't know what you want but I can't give it any more was a huge commercial disaster and a very wrong single choice, being the only PSB *lead* single to perform this poor.

dVTB wrote:I smell a contradiction. You slag off the Bilingual singles, informing us that Before fell to #22 in its second week, and A red letter day fell to #42. May I remind you that the 'superb' I don't know what you want but I can't give it any more, in fact the *lead single* of a new album, was at #38 in its second week? And just like A red letter day (which was the 4th single from an album), it spent just three weeks inside the Top 75.

With the exception of I Get Along and the 'only decent single from Bilingual' named Single-Bilingual, these 4 songs are the only PSB singles to spend just 3 weeks inside the Top 75.

So either A red letter day is just as 'superb' and 'decent' as I don't know what you want but I can't give it any more and S-B, or you admit that I don't know what you want but I can't give it any more was a huge commercial disaster and a very wrong single choice, being the only PSB *lead* single to perform this poor.

I think the sad fact is that these days, the chart performance of a PSB single is mainly decided by how well other singles sell in the relevant weeks. PSB are done as force to be reckoned with it terms of hit singles. Whether they release an over-the-top masterpiece of epic proportions, or a track consisting of Neil reading random names from the phone book with Chris playing the trombone in the background doesn't really matter. The only people who'll buy a PSB single are the fan base. Sadly, no one else gives a rat's ass.

Lush wrote:

dVTB wrote:I smell a contradiction. You slag off the Bilingual singles, informing us that Before fell to #22 in its second week, and A red letter day fell to #42. May I remind you that the 'superb' I don't know what you want but I can't give it any more, in fact the *lead single* of a new album, was at #38 in its second week? And just like A red letter day (which was the 4th single from an album), it spent just three weeks inside the Top 75.

With the exception of I Get Along and the 'only decent single from Bilingual' named Single-Bilingual, these 4 songs are the only PSB singles to spend just 3 weeks inside the Top 75.

So either A red letter day is just as 'superb' and 'decent' as I don't know what you want but I can't give it any more and S-B, or you admit that I don't know what you want but I can't give it any more was a huge commercial disaster and a very wrong single choice, being the only PSB *lead* single to perform this poor.

I think the sad fact is that these days, the chart performance of a PSB single is mainly decided by how well other singles sell in the relevant weeks. PSB are done as force to be reckoned with it terms of hit singles. Whether they release an over-the-top masterpiece of epic proportions, or a track consisting of Neil reading random names from the phone book with Chris playing the trombone in the background doesn't really matter. The only people who'll buy a PSB single are the fan base. Sadly, no one else gives a rat's ass.

I disagree. PSB singles these days perform according to the quality of the record which decides if casual fans will buy it or not. Better PSB singles (Miracles) do better than worse (I Get Along, New York city boy). The people who would buy *any* PSB single no matter what are far less than people here tend to think, which was proved by the abysmal sales of D3.

I've always thought of Disco 3 as their underground album. They should be immensely proud of it; no promotion, no single, cool cover/no pictures of Neil or Chris.

I think that by now that they're a fanbase only group; most people who buy singles are too young to even be aware of their existence and most who buy albums are too square to buy anything but James Blunt/Coldplay/assorted whiney dross.

Lush wrote:(...)or a track consisting of Neil reading random names from the phone book with Chris playing the trombone in the background

What a f*cking good idea! It would be SOOO arty! They could make a mice video, too.

Lush wrote:

I think the sad fact is that these days, the chart performance of a PSB single is mainly decided by how well other singles sell in the relevant weeks. PSB are done as force to be reckoned with it terms of hit singles. Whether they release an over-the-top masterpiece of epic proportions, or a track consisting of Neil reading random names from the phone book with Chris playing the trombone in the background doesn't really matter. The only people who'll buy a PSB single are the fan base. Sadly, no one else gives a rat's ass.

Yes but it is not helped by releasing shit singles. I don't know what you want but I can't give it any more was a truly awful choice for a lead single, I mean it really was shocking, when you have songs like Closer to Heaven and FYOG staring you in the face.

If the Pet Shop Boys release a single which appeals to a lot of people, then more people will buy it. This isnt a complex forumula to follow, and people are just deluding themselves if they think its all down to luck.

It isnt - it about releasing bloody good singles that people actually want to buy - rather than just issuing sub-standard single releases to Pet Shop Boys collectors who buy out of loyalty, and scoring a de facto top 20 'hit', which not a single person who isnt a hardcore fan wants to buy or listen to.

jamie1978 wrote: Yes but it is not helped by releasing shit singles. I don't know what you want but I can't give it any more was a truly awful choice for a lead single, I mean it really was shocking, when you have songs like Closer to Heaven and FYOG staring you in the face.

If the Pet Shop Boys release a single which appeals to a lot of people, then more people will buy it. This isnt a complex forumula to follow, and people are just deluding themselves if they think its all down to luck.

It isnt - it about releasing bloody good singles that people actually want to buy - rather than just issuing sub-standard single releases to Pet Shop Boys collectors who buy out of loyalty, and scoring a de facto top 20 'hit', which not a single person who isnt a hardcore fan wants to buy or listen to.

Of course, it hasn't helped their carreers that since the third single off "Very", they have consistently been releasing the wrong songs as singles, and they could have scored a string of hits with single releases that never happened; "One in a million", "Shameless", "Hit and Miss", "Closer to heaven", "Happiness is an option", and "I didn't get where I am today" could all have been real hits.
But now, I fear it's too late. Ten years ago, songs of the quality of "Miracles" and "Flamboyant"would have been major hits. These days, PSB scrape the top ten at best, unless of course they pull an Iron Maiden and release a single in January when sales are at their lowest.

AlfonsoPSB wrote:

Lush wrote:(...)or a track consisting of Neil reading random names from the phone book with Chris playing the trombone in the background

What a f*cking good idea! It would be SOOO arty! They could make a mice video, too.

It should be a video with rats, though, thus sending the subtle message that people in general are vermin

Lush wrote:[

Of course, it hasn't helped their carreers that since the third single off "Very", they have consistently been releasing the wrong songs as singles, and they could have scored a string of hits with single releases that never happened; "One in a million", "Shameless", "Hit and Miss", "Closer to heaven", "Happiness is an option", and "I didn't get where I am today" could all have been real hits.
But now, I fear it's too late. Ten years ago, songs of the quality of "Miracles" and "Flamboyant"would have been major hits. These days, PSB scrape the top ten at best, unless of course they pull an Iron Maiden and release a single in January when sales are at their lowest.

People say that about Miracles and Flamboyant, don't they... I cannot see it myself.

Miracles and Flamboyant are good songs, but I think there is a degree of relativism at play here. We compare them to, say, New York city boy, Single-Bilingual, I get along, and think they are wonderful. Which they are - in comparison.

But I don't think they 'deserved' to be major hits or anything. They are reasonably good songs by the Pet Shop Boys own recent standards, but that isnt really saying too much. They need to do better, much better, to appeal outside the 'hardcore'.

Lush wrote: Of course, it hasn't helped their carreers that since the third single off "Very", they have consistently been releasing the wrong songs as singles, and they could have scored a string of hits with single releases that never happened; "One in a million", "Shameless", "Hit and Miss", "Closer to heaven", "Happiness is an option", and "I didn't get where I am today" could all have been real hits.
But now, I fear it's too late. Ten years ago, songs of the quality of "Miracles" and "Flamboyant"would have been major hits. These days, PSB scrape the top ten at best, unless of course they pull an Iron Maiden and release a single in January when sales are at their lowest.

Aside from "Happiness Is An Option", I agree that the others could've been big hits, had they've been released as singles. Why release crap like "I Get Along", when you have "I Didn't Get Where I Am Today" available is pure madness! I've always thought that "Positive Role Model" would've been a great single, and PSB have said themselves that they did plan to release it as a single in 2000, and have a "Greatest Hits" album released that year. Sadly, it didn't happen which is a shame cos' on the back of their triumphant performance at Glastonbury, it may have done well. "Too Many People", "The Truck Driver & His Mate", "Screaming", "E-Mail" & "Somebody Else's Business" would've all been great singles I think so.

I like all the singles from West End girls right upto Paninaro '95, but it went wrong with "Before". "Before" and the follow-up "Se A Vida E'" were not your typical PSB sound and I guess put a lot of people off the forthcoming album, "Bilingual". Neil sings like a girl on "Before" and may've put people off, such as the casual PSB fan and as for SAVE - it's just too damn happy & cheerful to be a PSB song! Also, both videos are boring. "Single-Bilingual" (with the brilliant mad drumming!) should've been the 1st single, followed by "The Truck Driver & His Mate". This could've been a big summer hit, as it does have a novelty comedy feel to it! I can imagine a video featuring 2 big macho men dancing together in the moonlight, hilarious! Next up, "The Survivors" could've been the 3rd single and would've possibly been a hit at Xmas, when people like a slushy ballad during the cold winter nights. 4th single could've been "Up Against It", as it's quite a good track and miles better than A red letter day! Why do people like A red letter day so much, it's an awful song! The choir is out of tune, the video is shite and even Neil sounds bored singing it (especially on the "you can sneer...." bit). It was good to release, "Somewhere" to promote the concerts, but then at Xmas '97, why on earth didn't they release, "It Doesn't Often Snow At Xmas"? It could've been a big hit that Xmas, and would've been far better than just releasing it to the fan-club.

I still say I don't know what you want but I can't give it any more was a great single, and the video is brilliant too showing PSB turning into their 'new look' and the middle bit of the song is amazing! "Screaming" should've been the next single, and could've had a brilliant video featuring a guy stalking a girl (think Tom & Holly from "Casualty") whilst Neil & Chris watch on in disgust. "Closer To Heaven" should've been the 3rd single and could've been a preview for the then forthcoming musical of the same name. They could've done a video similar to "Somewhere", showing PSB, Johnathon Harvey & co working on the show - a behind-the-scenes type-thing. Cos' it's always been a shame that there's been so little footage of any CTH stuff, was there any infact? Next up, after their Glastonbury performance in 2000, they should've released a "Greatest Hits" collection then, with Positive role model as the 1st 'new track' and possibly, "Break 4 Love" as the 2nd single as it's criminal that song isn't more widely known, as Neil's vocal on it are great!

"Home And Dry" was alright as 1st single off "Release", but "E-Mail" should've been the 2nd single, and could've had a great video showing a guy or a girl missing their loved one etc, sat by their computer waiting for an e-mail saying "I Love You!". They should've not bothered with "Disco 3" and had a new album in late 2003/early 2004, with the 5 new tracks from "Disco 3" plus "Miracles", "Flamboyant" & the b-sides. "Miracles", "Flamboyant", Somebody Else's Business" & "I Didn't Get Where I Am Today" could've all been the singles off it. Then they could've still done the "Battleship Potemkin" project, released a remix album ("Disco 3") in late 2004 to keep us fans happy in the meantime, and then had the new 'studio' album next year (in 2006) with maybe a 3rd "Greatest Hits" in 2007. You see, if I was PSB's manager I'd be making them have hits & remaining in the public eye!

As for Iron Maiden, credit to them - 25 years and still rocking!

Screaming would have made a terrible single. Its a ghastly b-side they knocked together in a couple of days, with absolutely no redeeming features whatsoever. Its not even a particularly good b-side.

You don't purchance mean 'The ghost of myself' do you? I might forgive you in that case.

PS - oh, and no matter how much you like I don't know what you want but I can't give it any more personally, the fact remains it was the WORST commercial flop for a lead single ever in Pet Shop Boys history. I mean, even 'Home and dry' did one better.

Home And Dry - {14}-31-54-65-68-72->6 weeks

I don't know what you want but I can't give it any more - {15}-38-57->3 weeks


enough said (and I am not a fan of H&D I might add)

PS - here are some other lead single chart runs;

Before - 7-22-40-51-74->5 weeks

Can You Forgive Her? - 7-7-14-28-39-54-67->7 weeks

So Hard - 4-5-9-21-36-58->6 weeks

Domino Dancing - 9-7-9-12-21-33-42-70-86R(2)-91-84R(5)->11 weeks

I really think people have unrealistic expectations. The problem is that PSB got too old for pop stations, however unpalatable that is. I am forced to endure a variety of God awful commercial stations while I am at work (Capital, Heart, Magic and Virgin) and I've never heard a PSB song played - not even the Golden Age classics. All of them play the same old songs and the usual Blunt/Coldplay/U2 axis. Virgin for some bizarre reason play OMD's Enola Gay at regular intervals, Heart and Magic play easy listening pop and Capital just embarass this fine city. Once Radio 1 stopped played PSB, the only place you could really hear them was on Radio 2 and Terry Wogan's groupies prefer buying Melua and Callum albums.

I maintain that Miracles was as good as anything on Discography - the crescendo, the pathos, the drama - but unfortunately they're out of fashion now. They're not like old rock groups who will always be played on Virgin; they're POP and when pop stations don't play your singles, you are never going to be popular. Just be grateful that we still have them and that places like Popjustice preach the good word even if they are like John the Baptist in the wilderness.

I'm sure that they are reconciled to their 'cult' status now and though they'd love another number one single, I hope they never compromise themselves to get it. Just release a POP album.