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Re: Israeli air strikes

Posted: Fri 09 Jan 2009, 2:06 pm
by GalataPSB
glennjridge wrote: I'll tell you right now. I dont know where kabul is on the map.coudlnt tell you. I could tell you the NY yankee's Derek Jeter's batting adverage if you'd like to know.
Not surprise for me!

Do you know Kabul is in the world? It is Not like New York or California.. Do you know PEOPLE live in Kabul? Not like Derek Jeter!

Re: Israeli air strikes

Posted: Fri 09 Jan 2009, 2:13 pm
by GalataPSB
glennjridge wrote:Galata, not only do I support a 2 state solution, if I thought they would agree and I magically could do it, I would like to see a mass migration of Israel to the united states.

and if that were to ever happen(of course it wouldnt),the palestinians with the subtraction of Israel would spiral into a big mess of out of control fundamentalism and corruption in the absence of a Israels military power to keep the outside and inside influences from Iran and others in check.

I mean really.....as if the long history of failure of middle east culture is laid at the footstep of a small group of people.
Iran\ fundamentalism,Middle-east culture..Blah blah blah...

What did The Usa and israel bring in to the middle-east?

1 - Dictators
2 - Terror
3 - Chaos
4 - Weapons
5 - Nuclear weapon race!
6 - Bad economy!
7 - Wars
8 - Hatred
9 - Assasins
10 - Crime!

:shhh: :shhh:

Re: Israeli air strikes

Posted: Fri 09 Jan 2009, 2:19 pm
by GalataPSB
glennjridge wrote:by saying religious israeli want to destroy the mosque.... your almost saying by implication that its a state of Israel plan.when what your reffering to is fringe Israel crackpots. so,why are you even bringing that up greg. thats the paranoia hamas has been going on about to continully stir up anger.this theoretical threat which you now forward for obvious reasons. wording something in a devious manner to imply its a official state plan in action ie ...look what Israels doing now!

http://www.jerusalemites.org/crimes/cri ... slam/4.htm

http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2008/03/27/47501.html


I think Media washed your brain very well!

all the concession are always put on Israel.they invade gaza in the past after attacks and then move out.one side is trying the otherside is putting in people like hamas as their leaders.like I said...a culture of failure.
Israel invades without any reason! Kills children / women..Bombs schools/hospitals/ambulances/Mosques.. Jews can do everything... They killed their own prophet that was send By God... a culture of failure...

Re: Israeli air strikes

Posted: Fri 09 Jan 2009, 2:20 pm
by GalataPSB
Old Testament and the genocide in Gaza

Here is an article by Gilad Atzmon, a jazz musician, author and anti-Zionist activist who was born in Israel, determining the genocide in Gaza and the Old Testament relationship.


"You will chase your enemies, and they shall fall by the sword before you. Five of you shall chase a hundred, and a hundred of you shall put ten thousand to flight; your enemies shall fall by the sword before you.”
Leviticus, Chapter 26, verses 7-9

"When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations…then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them and show them no mercy.”
Deuteronomy 7:1-2,

"…do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them…as the Lord your God has commanded you…”
Deuteronomy 20:16

There is not much doubt amongst Biblical scholars that the Hebrew Bible contains some highly charged non-ethical suggestions, some of which are no less than a call for a genocide. Biblical scholar Raymund Schwager has found in the Old Testament 600 passages of explicit violence, 1000 descriptive verses of God's own violent actions of punishment, 100 passages where God expressly commands others to kill people. Apparently, violence is the most often mentioned activity in the Hebrew Bible.

As devastating as it may be, the Hebrew Bible saturation with violence and extermination of others may throw some light over the horrifying genocide conducted momentarily in Gaza by the Jewish state. In broad daylight, the IDF is using the most lethal methods against civilians as if their main objective is to ‘destroy’ the Gazans while showing ‘no mercy’ whatsoever.


Interestingly enough, Israel regards itself as a secular state. Ehud Barak is not exactly a qualified Rabbi and Tzipi Livni is not a Rabbi’s wife. Accordingly, we are entitled to assume that it isn’t actually Judaism per se that directly transforms Israeli politicians and military leaders into war criminals. Moreover, early Zionists believed that within a national home Jews would become 'people like all other people', i.e., civilised and ethical. In that very respect, Israeli reality is pretty peculiar. The Hebraic secular Jews may have managed to drop their God, most of them do not follow Judaic law, they are largely secular, and yet they collectively interpret their Jewish identity as a genocidal mission. They have successfully managed to transform the Bible from being a spiritual text into a bloodsoaked land registry. They are there, in Zion i.e., Palestine, to invade the land and to lock up, starve and destroy its indigenous habitants. Accordingly, it seems as if the artillery commanders and IAF pilots that erased northern Gaza two nights ago were following Deuteronomy 20:16 they indeed did ".. not leave alive anything that breathes.” And yet, one question is left open. Why should a secular commander follow Deuteronomy verses or any other Biblical text?

Some very few sporadic Jewish voices within the left are insisting upon telling us that Jewishness is not necessarily inherently murderous. I tend to believe them that they themselves consider their words as genuine and truthful. But then one may wonder, what is it that makes the Jewish state brutal with no comparison? The truth of the matter is actually pretty sad. As far as we can see, Zionism is the only secular ideological and political Jewish collective around and as it happens, it has proved once again this week that it is genocidal to the bone.

As far as genocide is concerned the difference between Judaism and Zionism can be illustrated as follows: while the Judaic Biblical context is soaked with genocidal references, usually in the name of God, within the Zionist context, Jews are killing Palestinians in the name of themselves i.e., the ‘Jewish people’. This is indeed the ultimate success of the Zionist revolution. It taught the Jews to believe in themselves. To believe in the Jewish state. ‘The Israeli’ is Israel’s God. Accordingly, the Israeli kills in the name of ‘his or her security’, in the name of ‘his or her democracy’. The Israelis destroy in the name of ‘their war against terror’ and in the name the ‘their America’. Seemingly, in the Jewish state, the Hebraic subject reverts to mass killing as soon as he finds a ‘name’ to associate with.

This doesn’t really leave us too much room for speculation. The Jewish state is the ultimate threat to humanity and our notion of humanism. Christianity, Islam and humanism came along with an attempt to amend Jewish tribal fundamentalism and to replace it with universal ethics. Enlightenment, liberalism and emancipation allowed Jews to redeem themselves from their ancient tribal supremacist traits. Since the mid 19th century, many Jews had been breaking out of their cultural and tribal chain. Tragically enough, Zionism managed to pull many Jews back in. Currently, Israel and Zionism are the only collective voice available for Jews.

The last twelve days of merciless offensive against the Palestinian civilian population does not leave any room for doubt. Israel is the gravest danger to world peace. Clearly the nations made a tragic mistake in 1947 giving a volatile racially orientated identity an opportunity to set itself into a national state. However, the nations’ duty now is to peacefully dismantle that state before it is too late. We must do it before the Jewish state and its forceful lobbies around the world manage to pull us all into a global war in the ‘name’ of one banal populist ideology or another (democracy, war against terror, cultural clash and so on). We have to wake up now before our one and only planet is transformed into a bursting boil of hatred.

:up:

Re: Israeli air strikes

Posted: Sat 10 Jan 2009, 1:30 am
by glennjridge
well I think everyone knows we took this topic and ran it into the ground as usual.

Galata you always make me laugh in a good way,I know you are only doing what I do, ie sticking up for your neck of the globe, I always do the same...I get that..greg I am sure you only want the best for the palestinians and the Israeli.I guess we cant agree on everything(thankfully we have the PSB) but its fun to talk about stuff........for awhile at least :)

Re: Israeli air strikes

Posted: Sat 10 Jan 2009, 4:07 am
by gregf
Hey it's Saturday. Out for Yum-Cha, then coffee and cake.
(Did you get the cake in Portal Glen?)

My thanks to everyone who kept this discussion civilised.
(while not forgetting people who are suffering anywhere).

Re: Israeli air strikes

Posted: Sat 10 Jan 2009, 4:41 pm
by glennjridge
yep.....cutest ending to a video game yet

Re: Israeli air strikes

Posted: Sat 10 Jan 2009, 9:01 pm
by redsock
Seeing as I only see you post in this thread gregf :wink: , can I just ask is that Derren Brown in your avatar ? It's a bit small to see properly. I'm hopefully meeting up with him in May when he brings his show to my neck of the woods. Great guy. :D

Re: Israeli air strikes

Posted: Sun 11 Jan 2009, 12:24 am
by gregf
:clap: Bingo Redsock.

I really respect Derren Brown. The thinking man's ..er ..magician (?)

We get his shows in the short 30 minute format, on cable,
plus we got the Russian Roulette in the full 1 hour episode.

We should do a thread just to flush out if there are other fans.

Re: Israeli air strikes

Posted: Tue 13 Jan 2009, 1:37 pm
by GalataPSB
Nice interview!

Journalist : Gregf

An American : Glenn...


http://www.timeturk.com/images_1/news/32923.jpg

*edit


Monitor unit


Lieberman: ‘Israel should hit Gaza with a nuclear bomb’


http://www.factjo.com/Factjo_en/fullNews.aspx?id=1343


On Tuesday, Avigdor Lieberman, the leader of the Yisrael Beiteinu party, said “Israel should hit Gaza with a nuclear bomb.”

"Israel should do as the US did with Japan in World War II and there is no need to occupy Gaza," Maariv newspaper quoted him as saying to students at the Bar-Ilan University.

The terrorist leader said that the Israelis will not be safe unless Hamas is ousted.

“The war should go on until Hamas is eliminated,” he said.

“By shelling Gaza with a nuclear bomb Israel will no longer be described as an occupying country.”

Re: Israeli air strikes

Posted: Fri 30 Jan 2009, 8:51 am
by GalataPSB

Re: Israeli air strikes

Posted: Fri 30 Jan 2009, 12:38 pm
by gregf
I have resisted saying this but I must.
At the start, I said Israel was trying to avoid civilian deaths.

Well that lasted about two days ; after that Israeli troops did murder civilians.
I was wrong ; wishful thinking ?

Yes, PM Erdogan is correct.
But getting angry achieves nothing.

We must focus on getting the peace plan back on track
and ensuring Likud does not wn the Israel elections.

Re: Israeli air strikes

Posted: Fri 30 Jan 2009, 2:39 pm
by glennjridge
you greedily jump all over a Israeli incident....why?....if you truly thought it was Israeli policy,then,whats the big deal,it should be a non story.thats how the Israeli are right?

you jump all over it because you are happy to deviour an abberation and push it as modus operandi.

where as you really take no note of palestinian actions because you ...and most of the rest of the world ....hold them to a much lower expectation. you and they ...go in assuming they are barbaric and dont care about civilian casualties.hence why there never is any reaction for their firing of unguided rockets,suicide bombings civilian deaths etc.

the world take note of the Israel actions because it assumes they are a better people.

Re: Israeli air strikes

Posted: Fri 30 Jan 2009, 5:00 pm
by JSDOUVRES
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/davos/7859417.stm

Wow what a hero he is???!!!!!

So how exactly would Istanbul react if rockets were being fired randomly into it's people? He didn't get round to answering that one did he?

I think we all know the answer to that, about 100 times more violently than Israel but hey Hamas are muslims so that is fine is it Galata? And before you say, yes London, New York, Paris etc. would also react in a similar vein, no surprise their but when it is Israel you can only accuse them of being murderers? Israel has had to put up with these missile attacks for far too long and they have reacted, Yes it is a tragic thing that people and many children have died, 1 death is too many on either side and I hope this war will soon be over but to blame Israel and turn a blind eye to the Hamas terrorists is a disgrace when like I said Istanbul would no doubt react in a much more than similar way if it's people were under such an attack. So what have Turkey ever done to stop Hamas attacking with rockets? F**k all That's sure.

Same old anti Jew racist propaganda from him and it is really scary when you hear some of the words from the Turkish prime minister. A hero? Pathetic. The rest of the world is thankfully not so stupid and can look at this conflict with both eyes open. Israel and Hamas BOTH need to make sure no more people are getting killed, yes, people Galata, not Jews and not Muslims but PEOPLE. Try understanding that.

Re: Israeli air strikes

Posted: Sat 31 Jan 2009, 4:30 am
by gregf
Of course incidents like this are normal ; it's been happening for 50 years.
Both sides commit atrocities. Israeli ones don't get shown on US TV.

There are many stories coming out now of IDF atrocities.
But no one can verify as the world press was locked out by IDF.

You suggest I am jumping on this incident. We are all so sick of any
criticism of Israel as anti-Semitic i.e. Nazi. It so so intellectually pathetic
to respond to everything with "You're anti-Semitic".

Of course we expect better of Israel, don't you ? They have a government,
Palestine does not. They have an army. Palestine does not. You prefer to
believe Muslims are sub-civilised which is just racism.

The problem is Americans, ignorant that Israel is as bad as Hamas, has
been financing Israel's genocide of the Palestinians for 50 years. And if
anything to disrupt this fantasy is pointed out, we are accused of being Nazis.
That ignorance of the world, is the cause of the problem.

You ignore when I am critical of Hamas. So what is the point. Why should I
put in the effort to explain things if you have a closed mind. Have an open mind.
Learn things. Get some benefit from talking to people who did not grow up on Fox lies.

Stupidity is the greatest enemy of Western civilisation.