Track-by-Track: From Please to Nonetheless

[Patrick Bateman]

Does Undertaker still post here? I love his take on the Top of the Pops appearance.

[petshopgrrl]

If I never hear this song again it will be too soon

I agree with you. Words cannot express how much I despise this song. It's easily their worst single. The faux Village People pastiche just doesn't work.

I third, fourth and fifth this - I do not need any VP in my life. I usually skip GW and if I have to listen to New York city boy, I reach for the Lange mix every time.

Although god help me if I ever see another thigh slap...

Awww... and God forbid a man live his best life?! Neil gonna Neil.

[rathound]

Interesting to see a number of other people can't stand it - I thought I was 'the only one'.

This is where PSB lost me and I don't think they really found me again til Electric (though I liked certain track ons the subsequent albums)

Village People were dreadful, why try to sound like them? Go West - never a huge fan of it, but it was a clever and touching reinvention of it, with some great additional music - I love the ravey bit on the 12 inch. This was just dire. Video a mess as well.

And obviously not interested really in all the sexuality politics, but this for the first time felt it was aimed squarely at the gay crowd to the exclusion of the other fans. Maybe it was just me that felt that. I felt they were no longer relevant to me at this point for the first time.

[Sandy Shaw]

I love New York City Boy. Much closer to the Village People's song San Francisco than Go West in my opinion. If you want camp over the top, check out SF!!! I'm sorry to hear that this song alienated some fans, it's a bit of fun and gets the dance floor moving. Just skip it if you don't like it.

[Morse]

Interesting to see a number of other people can't stand it - I thought I was 'the only one'.

This is where PSB lost me and I don't think they really found me again til Electric (though I liked certain track ons the subsequent albums)

Village People were dreadful, why try to sound like them? Go West - never a huge fan of it, but it was a clever and touching reinvention of it, with some great additional music - I love the ravey bit on the 12 inch. This was just dire. Video a mess as well.

And obviously not interested really in all the sexuality politics, but this for the first time felt it was aimed squarely at the gay crowd to the exclusion of the other fans. Maybe it was just me that felt that. I felt they were no longer relevant to me at this point for the first time.

I enjoyed reading this, by the way.

I can see why you felt New York city boy felt a bit more openly camp/disco than usual, especially with the Village People-ish gloss, but I’m not sure I’d ever reasonably call it a “gay song” as such, or claim it was aimed at LGBTQ+ fans.

To me New York city boy is more a big theatrical city-fantasy song. It’s about New York as this place where you reinvent yourself, go out, become fabulous, escape whatever small backwater world you came from, and go and live in neon for a bit. Obviously that has a strong LGBTQ+ cultural resonance, because cities and dancefloors have historically mattered a lot in queer life. But it’s not exclusively gay. Lots of people understand that fantasy of wanting somewhere bigger, brighter, and freer.

To be honest, that's always been one of Neil and Chris' cleverest tricks, I think. Their songs often work on several levels at once. Go West can be a football chant, a utopian anthem, a gay disco record, and a melancholy political fantasy all at the same time. Being Boring can be about friendship, memory, ageing, and AIDS without being reduced to only one of those things.

New York city boy is probably just less subtle than some of their other work. It’s not very coded subtext but nonetheless I’d still call it camp rather than gay-exclusive.

[rathound]

Interesting to see a number of other people can't stand it - I thought I was 'the only one'.

This is where PSB lost me and I don't think they really found me again til Electric (though I liked certain track ons the subsequent albums)

Village People were dreadful, why try to sound like them? Go West - never a huge fan of it, but it was a clever and touching reinvention of it, with some great additional music - I love the ravey bit on the 12 inch. This was just dire. Video a mess as well.

And obviously not interested really in all the sexuality politics, but this for the first time felt it was aimed squarely at the gay crowd to the exclusion of the other fans. Maybe it was just me that felt that. I felt they were no longer relevant to me at this point for the first time.

I enjoyed reading this, by the way.

I can see why you felt New York city boy felt a bit more openly camp/disco than usual, especially with the Village People-ish gloss, but I’m not sure I’d ever reasonably call it a “gay song” as such, or claim it was aimed at LGBTQ+ fans.

To me New York city boy is more a big theatrical city-fantasy song. It’s about New York as this place where you reinvent yourself, go out, become fabulous, escape whatever small backwater world you came from, and go and live in neon for a bit. Obviously that has a strong LGBTQ+ cultural resonance, because cities and dancefloors have historically mattered a lot in queer life. But it’s not exclusively gay. Lots of people understand that fantasy of wanting somewhere bigger, brighter, and freer.

To be honest, that's always been one of Neil and Chris' cleverest tricks, I think. Their songs often work on several levels at once. Go West can be a football chant, a utopian anthem, a gay disco record, and a melancholy political fantasy all at the same time. Being Boring can be about friendship, memory, ageing, and AIDS without being reduced to only one of those things.

New York city boy is probably just less subtle than some of their other work. It’s not very coded subtext but nonetheless I’d still call it camp rather than gay-exclusive.

likewise thanks for the considered response. For context, I guess this was of course nearly 30 years ago - nowadays probably would just think 'oh it's not a great song is it' and skip it. I'm looking back on it as my experience when it was released.

I think you summarise well, in that previous works definitely work on so many levels - I guess for me this was the first time that subtlety was lost (of course a lot of Very is very camp but still had some some ambiguity in there), and this was no longer something that spoke to me

[Sammy Jenkis]

As hinted at earlier, context does New York city boy no favours. It was heralded in the media as proof that they were recapturing previous glories, a weight that Se a Vida ê had also had to carry three years earlier. Of the two tracks, I think SAVE has aged better. Neil's lyrics are unwieldy to my ear. Where previously he'd been Moses carrying the commandments of NYC club music and hip-hop to the Eastern Atlantic, here he's just loosely sketching some kind of suburban archetype and it's sadly a lot closer to 6/7 than 86.

[VRIDD]

I have never appreciated New York city boy, too. And I am quite surprised I am not alone.
I remember that, when New York city boy was realised as a single, I was really hoping for a remix that could change my situation... but I never found it

However, let me remark that this PSB single holds a record: the highest number of "radio edits". Indeed, there are at least six different official radio edits of the standard version (the album version).

[Disco.]

Interesting to see a number of other people can't stand it - I thought I was 'the only one'.

This is where PSB lost me and I don't think they really found me again til Electric (though I liked certain track ons the subsequent albums)

Village People were dreadful, why try to sound like them? Go West - never a huge fan of it, but it was a clever and touching reinvention of it, with some great additional music - I love the ravey bit on the 12 inch. This was just dire. Video a mess as well.

And obviously not interested really in all the sexuality politics, but this for the first time felt it was aimed squarely at the gay crowd to the exclusion of the other fans. Maybe it was just me that felt that. I felt they were no longer relevant to me at this point for the first time.

And their most expensive video ever ! , apparently it cost around £ 200,000

[Patrick Bateman]

likewise thanks for the considered response. For context, I guess this was of course nearly 30 years ago - nowadays probably would just think 'oh it's not a great song is it' and skip it. I'm looking back on it as my experience when it was released.

I think you summarise well, in that previous works definitely work on so many levels - I guess for me this was the first time that subtlety was lost (of course a lot of Very is very camp but still had some some ambiguity in there), and this was no longer something that spoke to me

That's the thing. Look at those singles on Discography - just perfect, often darkly disturbing, songs about human relationships. Clearly they have strong gay coding and imagery but anyone can relate to the emotions and feelings they evoke. They are indeed subtle in everything they convey.

Go West succeeds because it takes an extremely gay song and subtext, and somehow makes it funny, moving and irresistible as a terrace anthem that is still sung at every football match. That's genius.

New York city boy, like a lot of that period, is about as subtle as a brick. It's no coincidence that they've been writing the musical in the preceding years, which is similarly OTT. Clearly they love that camp aesthetic but this is where they actually become it themselves. Fine, but it's just not the same group. It's like Trauffaut suddenly transmogrifying into John Waters.

[richsmith]

Don't taint the great John Waters with the New York city boy brush, please, Patrick.

[MikeyC]

I loved the updated arrangement and more “oomph” they gave the song for the version performed during the Super Tour! x

[MikeyC]

I was recently thinking about New York city boy since a news event (at least in the U.S.) made a lyric stand out… The former head of the FBI was indicted and arrested for a photo he put on social media last year while on vacation: it showed seashells on a beach spelling out ‘86 47’. The convicted felon’s department of justice managed to get a grand jury to indict Comey for that. (They say you can get a grand jury to indict a ham sandwich.) I mainly use the term ‘86’ when I sing along to these lyrics:

‘If you don’t get that mix
it’s gone eighty-six.’

Apparently the term originated in restaurants meaning ‘to remove’ a dish that was no longer selling.

[Lleonard Pler]

I was recently thinking about New York city boy since a news event (at least in the U.S.) made a lyric stand out… The former head of the FBI was indicted and arrested for a photo he put on social media last year while on vacation: it showed seashells on a beach spelling out ‘86 47’. The convicted felon’s department of justice managed to get a grand jury to indict Comey for that. (They say you can get a grand jury to indict a ham sandwich.) I mainly use the term ‘86’ when I sing along to these lyrics:

‘If you don’t get that mix
it’s gone eighty-six.’

Apparently the term originated in restaurants meaning ‘to remove’ a dish that was no longer selling.

Thank you! I always wondered what that meant. I thought it was either a forced way of saying "it's gone since 1986" or slang for "it's gone for good".

Such a divisive song but not all their songs generate two pages of passionate opinions.

[tottenhammattspurs]

“86” comes from restaurants. To be precise, TGI Fridays. We used it so the kitchen could let the front of house know that something has run out. For example, guacamole for fajitas. Once restocked it would be “68”. The whole thing came from a (made up) story that someone committed suicide from the 86th floor of the Empire State Building but the strength of the wind blew them back into the 68th floor window.