Pet Shop Boys Community

BlueSwan wrote:

dVTB wrote:

jyllinge wrote:its better than Was It Worth It? #24 and he announced an european tour in january 2007. Thats the highlights!

Given the fact that Was it worth it? was exactly the same version as the one on the multi-selling Discography, that #24 is not half as bad as the result of Numb.

Some lessons:
- Never mutilate a great song to get more radio airplay; if it needs to be cut down SO radically, isn't probably not single material
- Write your own songs, you don't need Diane Warren
- Put something valuable on your cd's, rather than a live version of West End Girls; out on Concrete, one week later.

I think the main lesson is this: Don't release songs that are neither good nor commercial as singles.

Even better, the main lesson should be: Listen to your own heart! (And the fans) I think that even Neil and Chris themselves would consider Sodom and Gomorrah show or Integral as better songs than Numb. Yes, Diane Warren was a hitmaker, but so were they!

It's not a bad radio edit, I feel - it's not the end of the world if one verse is missing.

In fact, as it has exactly the same levels, effects and mastering as the album version, it's possible with some neat copying and pasting (and some subtle crossfading) to insert the missing verse and add the album's introduction to the single edit, thus creating a "full length" version with two middle sections and a running time of about 5:02. That potentially makes the best version of the tune, as I like the fact it features the middle section twice.

I've created this version using Sound Forge, but naturally can't post a link to it here! You'll probably find that Trevor Horn made this version before deciding to cut out the second verse. He'd probably have done better to remove the orchestral intro (as he did for the single version), but leave in the second verse and repeated middle section - then the "radio edit" would have been about 4:35 in length, I believe. We'll probably end up hearing the 5 minute full length single version on a "further listening" in decades to come, as we did with 'A Red Letter Day'.

Andy

I still think they were either under contract to release it, or had a gentlemens agreement that it would be a single. We will never know though. Why else who someone like Warren give away a song, only for it to be hidden away on an album that wouldn't be around for too long?

Dave

The problem with cutting verses is that you lose all artistic integrity in the rather pointless attempt to get more radio airplay. Radio 2 would have played the full version of Numb anyway and who else is really playing their music nowadays?

Take a verse out of West End girls or It's a sin or Left to my own devices and they are the lesser for it.

I'm not particularly bothered about the chart position; I just weep to see the cinematic everything-but-the-kitchen-sink Pet Shop Boys' sound prostituted in a Sisyphean attempt to shift a few units.

Undertaker wrote:I still think they were either under contract to release it, or had a gentlemens agreement that it would be a single. We will never know though. Why else who someone like Warren give away a song, only for it to be hidden away on an album that wouldn't be around for too long?

Dave

Err... Because she'll make money out of it, even if it just sits on an album... Every songwriter needs to make a living!

Andy

jyllinge wrote:its better than Was It Worth It? #24 and he announced an european tour in january 2007. Thats the highlights!

The 'worse' new entry position was Being Boring which entered at No. 36 then rising to 20, then down to 26.

So as 'new' entries goes not the worst but bad.

TwizzleUK wrote:
Dave

Err... Because she'll make money out of it, even if it just sits on an album... Every songwriter needs to make a living!

Andy[/quote]

Then she would have given the song to a damp squib of a rock band who get big hits releasing 'tear jerking' songs. Or a group who's album will sell a barrow load more than PSB.

Dave

I'm actually shocked that everyone feels Numb is a poor choice for a single. If you listen to one of Neil's interviews, Numb was supposed to be on PopArt because they needed a hit for their greatest hits compilation. And since "writing a hit" can be daunting (says Neil), they contacted someone who "makes hits for a living"--Diane Warren. So I think that both Neil and Chris thought it had hit potential from the get-go.

I really like Numb, and was moved the first time I heard it. It was very impressive to see it done live too. Several friends here in the US said they got chills seeing it live. But I can understand its weak charting potential, given that ballads from middle-aged pop stars are probably not as appealing as the other 22 songs that were ahead of it in the chart.

I think the timing is a bit off too. If Numb was released in place of Minimal, it would have coincided with all that World Cup promotion that it received in July with the UK defeat.

I just *hope* and *pray* for a 4th single. Integral really should be released, is begging to be remixed, would coincide with the European leg of the tour, and would be a triumphant close to the Fundamental era.

It wasnt a poor choice of single, they just didnt promote it at all.

As usual. A bit of effort and theyd have had a bigger hit.

There will probably be a fourth single to coincide with the start of the european tour, perhaps a double a side with a cover and a Fundamental song.

Well we can dream!

Remark wrote: that World Cup promotion that it received in July with the UK defeat.

eh??

Remark wrote:I'm actually shocked that everyone feels Numb is a poor choice for a single. If you listen to one of Neil's interviews, Numb was supposed to be on PopArt because they needed a hit for their greatest hits compilation. And since "writing a hit" can be daunting (says Neil), they contacted someone who "makes hits for a living"--Diane Warren. So I think that both Neil and Chris thought it had hit potential from the get-go.

I really like Numb, and was moved the first time I heard it. It was very impressive to see it done live too. Several friends here in the US said they got chills seeing it live. But I can understand its weak charting potential, given that ballads from middle-aged pop stars are probably not as appealing as the other 22 songs that were ahead of it in the chart.

I think the timing is a bit off too. If Numb was released in place of Minimal, it would have coincided with all that World Cup promotion that it received in July with the UK defeat.

I just *hope* and *pray* for a 4th single. Integral really should be released, is begging to be remixed, would coincide with the European leg of the tour, and would be a triumphant close to the Fundamental era.

Well that's the chart predictions for Numb done & dusted. Actually, #23 is not bad.
1; Terrible Edit for Single release. PSB Demo version had more life in it.
2; Terrible decision to have both Cd's with the same sleeve design...Not PSB style.
3; Terrible tracklisting mistake. May not bother some people but us fans expect better.
4; Great version of West End Girls (Live at the Mermaid).
5; Great decision to release the 12" vinyl & 7" vinyl (tomorrow). Love my vinyls.

Here's a thought. Luna Park could have been a good choice of single hence Halloween coming up. It has that spooky dark mood within the song. Would have suited the photo of the Numb sleeve.
Had Numb been released to promote PopArt & only reached #23, that would have been embarrassing.

I've yet to listen to the formats that I've purchased for Numb even though they are not sealed.

This is also the single in which I've been the least excited about since becoming a proper fan since before I don't know what you want but I can't give it any more. It's the worst song to choose as a single after the I get along edit (though the album version is a cracker!).

Phillip wrote:
The 'worse' new entry position was Being Boring which entered at No. 36 then rising to 20, then down to 26.

So as 'new' entries goes not the worst but bad.

Comparing new entries etc in these past and present charts is like cf. apples and oranges as any chart fanatic like myself will tell you.
In todays chart, singles rarely climb from their NE - this is usually the peak position. If Numb stays well inside the TOP 75 next week after the concerted fanbase buying + there is only general public music buyers left who if they've even heard of/remember PSB believe they stopped actively making records in the 90's, it will be remarkable.
BB and Was it worth it? did infinately better in addition to all the reasons mentioned than modern PSB single charts run because first they rose (or at least had a stable position for a couple of weeks) than dropped at a much more gradual rate then the lead balloon effect of current PSB singles that only have first week die fanbase support and then practically nothing...in cumulative terms then such modern charts runs give absymal sales cf. to comparable peak number chart of Was it worth it? etc. which spent several week in the same band of the chart(no plummeting out the chart the week after release) and thats without taking into account that the (physical) single is nearly a dead format and is only a tiny fraction in sales size cf when PSB where household names.

I'm not sure if yet another top 30 single is something to lament about - it's hardly an ignominious accomplishment.

I just can't believe such a bad song was rewarded with this distinction. Roll on January 8th!