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No Muscle Mary wrote:I lived in Scotland for a while and thankfully, never came across any racism. I've read some absolutely charming comments by a few choice Scots about the Irish on the internet alright.

I've alway wondered about that. No offense to anyone, but Scots seem to (traditionally) dislike Irish people way more than the English even. What did the Irish ever do to the Scots? The Scots did way more to the Irish in the Cromwellian Plantations in northern Ireland, that's for sure. (With England as tour director.)

I guess it's human nature to kick the people below you on the social ladder. I get the feeling Scotland got very comfortable on the Royal Pillow, being fed and petted like a spaniel. It must have been exciting to be a part of the Empire, stroked and rewarded for the violent animus to keep Paddy down at all costs. Taught to hate him as a rebel. Bite, my lovely! Victoria no doubt enjoyed this.

And today, of course, suddenly there's mutterings of Scots nationalism. Worshipping the monarchy, it's not quite as rewarding as it was. Ah, pity. But at least you're not a Mick, right? Scottish people seem to define themselves negatively by this (traditionally). They sold out to the English long ago, and maybe that's why Scotland has never to my knowledge ever lent a hand or expressed any interest in friendship with Ireland independently in any way. Even individual Scots people, what an attitude they have towards Irish people.

Scottish planters were all over Ireland not just in what the English call Northern Ireland. I think today that there is about 2% of the 'southern' Irish population that declare themselves as protestant and most - though not all - are likely descended from both Scottish and English settlers.

Anti Irish sentiment in Scotland probably goes back to the famine when hundreds of thousands of Irish people 'decamped' to the west coast of Scotland. Given that they were moving to an area where there was already fierce competition fopr resources -employment, housing etc - it is likely that this mass exodus to Scotland was the original catalyst for much of the sectarainsim that still exists today - if you are poor and another poor person wants to take half of what you do - or don't - have then you are going to be pissed off with him.

As for Scots Gaelic - or Gàidhlig - there are actually more speakers of this in the highlands of scotland and Glasgow (!) then there are speakers of Irish Gaelic - Gaeilge - in the entire island of Ireland. Both of these languages are descended from old Irish, indeed the reason why Scotland is called Scotland is that one of the Irish Gaelic tribes that colonised scotland were called the Scottis, indeed Gaelic was spoken in most of Scotland until about three hundred years ago. The Gaels called Scotland Alba, hence Albannach Scotsman.

As for the Scots people themselves.... although I was born in Ireland I grew up in London and have generally found Scottish people to be very like the Irish in some senses- a love of the craic, a wry sense of humour and hardworking. However I have some Scottish friends of Irish extraction who would tell a completely different story. One of my mates, for exampl, his parents one a protestant and another of Irish catholic background had to leave Glasgow in the 70s in order that they could get married. Another friend of mine, a glasgow Asian, said that although he was given a hard time in his Scottish public school it was the kids of Irish extraction who got it the worst.

Tá súil agam go bhfuil lá breá agat

Maybe they're jealous cause we won (most of) our country back from the English?

Seriously though, from what I've seen, I think it does harp back to the Irish moving to Scotland during the famine. And a lot of the racism is by Rangers supporters against Celtic supporters.

The figures for Irish speaking are a bit misleading. Everybody who was educated in the Irish system can speak Irish, rusty though it may be, but the figures only reflect those who speak it as their first language. Also goes to show what a good job the English did of wiping out our native tongue.

Beidh lá bhreá agam, tá an grian ag taitneamh agus táim sasta.

Fugitive1979 wrote:

No Muscle Mary wrote:

skyhigh wrote:wikipedia?? gies peace.

It's as good a starting point as any.

It depends on who wrote it and whether they were biased about certain parts of the history, though.

That's true. But it'll do for somebody who posts as ignorant an opinion as df118junkie did above. In fact, dictionary.com probably would have done!

Here's a comment I found about the Irish by a charming Scotsman on a discussion board about Scots racism against Irish.
"Piss off back to Ireland and pick your tatties, talk about overstaying your welcome, the famine was years ago, hope there is another one soon. Irish scum "

Here's the discussion, if anyone fancies reading it. Warning - it will induce anger!

http://www.topix.com/forum/world-soccer ... OH0OS31OV3

Yep I forgot to mention the problem with the figures.

Don't forget that some of our Irish heroes were of course from Anglo Irish backgrounds and took an active role in the Gaelic revival of the nineteenth century.

Of 'Southern' Protestants Graham Norton wrote in his book that being Protestant in Cork was worse than being a homosexual. I find this hard to believe. Saying that where i'm from the only Protestants are in the graveyards......

Gluais faicilleach le cupan làn

We have always found the Irish to be odd. They refuse to be English.

Winston Churchill

Deschanel wrote:

No Muscle Mary wrote:I lived in Scotland for a while and thankfully, never came across any racism. I've read some absolutely charming comments by a few choice Scots about the Irish on the internet alright.

I've alway wondered about that. No offense to anyone, but Scots seem to (traditionally) dislike Irish people way more than the English even. What did the Irish ever do to the Scots? The Scots did way more to the Irish in the Cromwellian Plantations in northern Ireland, that's for sure. (With England as tour director.)

I guess it's human nature to kick the people below you on the social ladder. I get the feeling Scotland got very comfortable on the Royal Pillow, being fed and petted like a spaniel. It must have been exciting to be a part of the Empire, stroked and rewarded for the violent animus to keep Paddy down at all costs. Taught to hate him as a rebel. Bite, my lovely! Victoria no doubt enjoyed this.

And today, of course, suddenly there's mutterings of Scots nationalism. Worshipping the monarchy, it's not quite as rewarding as it was. Ah, pity. But at least you're not a Mick, right? Scottish people seem to define themselves negatively by this (traditionally). They sold out to the English long ago, and maybe that's why Scotland has never to my knowledge ever lent a hand or expressed any interest in friendship with Ireland independently in any way. Even individual Scots people, what an attitude they have towards Irish people.

There are plenty of Scots that are pro-Irish.

deleted

No Muscle Mary wrote:Here's a comment I found about the Irish by a charming Scotsman on a discussion board about Scots racism against Irish.
"Piss off back to Ireland and pick your tatties, talk about overstaying your welcome, the famine was years ago, hope there is another one soon. Irish scum "

Here's the discussion, if anyone fancies reading it. Warning - it will induce anger!

http://www.topix.com/forum/world-soccer ... OH0OS31OV3

That's a Rangers fan though. When they're not marching or banging the drum, they're burning Catholics.

Niall wrote:There are plenty of Scots that are pro-Irish.

"Tony f*cking Adams?!?!?!?!?!"

raggatwin wrote:Yep I forgot to mention the problem with the figures.

Don't forget that some of our Irish heroes were of course from Anglo Irish backgrounds and took an active role in the Gaelic revival of the nineteenth century.

Of 'Southern' Protestants Graham Norton wrote in his book that being Protestant in Cork was worse than being a homosexual. I find this hard to believe. Saying that where i'm from the only Protestants are in the graveyards......

Gluais faicilleach le cupan làn

Don't get me started on Graham Norton. When he's at home (Cork, his family are here, he grew up here and he spends a lot of time in his house in Ahakista), then he's all about being Irish and helping local causes etc, which is great, I've no problem with that obviously. But as soon as he's on TV in England, then he's English and gets quite perturbed if anyone mentions his Irishness. I remember one time a girl in the audience on his TV show told him she was Irish and he said 'Oh, I'm so sorry'.
I grew up with lots of Protestants and none of them have ever told me they had a hard time, and I've never experienced them being picked on. Growing up a homosexual in Cork would have been much more problematic than being protestant so I don't know where he's coming from there.
Then there's Terry Wogan. Cork holding the Eurovision in a 'cowshed'

No Muscle Mary wrote:Everybody who was educated in the Irish system can speak Irish, rusty though it may be, but the figures only reflect those who speak it as their first language.

I can't speak Irish. I was far too busy absorbing subjects that mattered in the real world rather than concerning myself with what went on in the nightmarish mindset of fundamentalist blood sacrifice Catholic Irish nationalism. A heritage subject like Irish was and is taught compulsorily as a futile and wasteful political act of aggression rather than as an enriching and relevant add-on to the main curriculum. That, in essence, is why it passed me by. That, or I'm thick.

Also goes to show what a good job the English did of wiping out our native tongue.

Thank God English is our first language. We'd have been the Albania of western Europe otherwise. Irish is dead because a language must be the language of commerce to survive and thrive in any meaningful way. The Irish language is as relevant to modern Irish life as Peig Sayers. But, begorrah, despite losing my 14th child to the pox and miscarrying for the ninth time, sure, weren't we as happy as Larry as we curled up against the tiny kindled fire with only our empty rumbling stomachs for company on the bitterly cold night before Séan Óg fell off the cliff, thanks be to God.

Drico.

PS There is some ridiculously prejudiced anti-Scottish sentiment in this thread. Our Celtic cousins deserve better.

Thanks Drico. I'm too young to have any issues with anything Irish. I hate the old firm because of all the bile associated with it. It's not one side more so than the other, both are as bad. I'm not anti anyone, though, unlike Neil, i'm not a fan of Jamaica. When asked my nationality i say Scottish as opposed to British but i'm happy enough to hold a British passport so i have no problem being British, i just prefer to think of myself as Scottish. This thread is about Catholicism though. I'm not a fan. In a way, it scares me.

Drico One wrote:

No Muscle Mary wrote:Everybody who was educated in the Irish system can speak Irish, rusty though it may be, but the figures only reflect those who speak it as their first language.

I can't speak Irish. I was far too busy absorbing subjects that mattered in the real world rather than concerning myself with what went on in the nightmarish mindset of fundamentalist blood sacrifice Catholic Irish nationalism. A heritage subject like Irish was and is taught compulsorily as a futile and wasteful political act of aggression rather than as an enriching and relevant add-on to the main curriculum. That, in essence, is why it passed me by. That, or I'm thick.

Also goes to show what a good job the English did of wiping out our native tongue.

Thank God English is our first language. We'd have been the Albania of western Europe otherwise. Irish is dead because a language must be the language of commerce to survive and thrive in any meaningful way. The Irish language is as relevant to modern Irish life as Peig Sayers. But, begorrah, despite losing my 14th child to the pox and miscarrying for the ninth time, sure, weren't we as happy as Larry as we curled up against the tiny kindled fire with only our empty rumbling stomachs for company on the bitterly cold night before Séan Óg fell off the cliff, thanks be to God.

Drico.

PS There is some ridiculously prejudiced anti-Scottish sentiment in this thread. Our Celtic cousins deserve better.

I'm not anti Scottish and i hope my posts do not infer this.

I'm certainly not anti-Scottish either. I've lived there and holidayed there and love the place.
I can understand what Skyhigh means about Jamaica though. I have family there, have lived there and got married there. Each time I was there I had property stolen - the crime rate is atrociously high. In fact, even in the airport our bags were plundered AFTER we'd checked them in. But it's understandable, with so much poverty there.
Anyway, not meaning to change the subject. This thread has wandered a long way from the Ryan Report.