Pet Shop Boys Community

York Minster wrote: Mon 22 Oct 2018, 6:33 pm Did Neil really support the Iraq war in 2003? Is there a source on this?

Here is one.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2004/ ... popandrock

"I start to talk about the 2003 anti-Iraq war demonstration, the biggest ever seen in Trafalgar Square. This chimes with Neil. He was pro-war, because he read The Threatening Storm, a book written by ex-Clinton administration stalwart Kenneth Pollack, who considered all the options for dealing with Saddam and came to the conclusion that regime change was the only choice. Apparently, The Threatening Storm was required reading by Bush's team, and, Neil insists, was what led Blair to the same conclusion. Anyway, Neil read it too, and agreed".

dynamobjornen wrote: Mon 22 Oct 2018, 8:14 pm

York Minster wrote: Mon 22 Oct 2018, 6:33 pm Did Neil really support the Iraq war in 2003? Is there a source on this?

Here is one.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2004/ ... popandrock

"I start to talk about the 2003 anti-Iraq war demonstration, the biggest ever seen in Trafalgar Square. This chimes with Neil. He was pro-war, because he read The Threatening Storm, a book written by ex-Clinton administration stalwart Kenneth Pollack, who considered all the options for dealing with Saddam and came to the conclusion that regime change was the only choice. Apparently, The Threatening Storm was required reading by Bush's team, and, Neil insists, was what led Blair to the same conclusion. Anyway, Neil read it too, and agreed".

I remember this too. I wonder if Neil sees this as 'foolish' like what he described the 17.4 million people who voted for Britain to leave the European Union are or whether he believes that it was a wonderful idea to invade Iraq and support an illegal war which caused unquestionable and substantial humanitarian, political and economic problems of which are still felt today and will be for decades to come. I'd describe the war and occupation of Iraq as worse than foolish but something so serious that it may take decades to get over and for many that died they will obviously never recover from. Just a few years later Neil wrote the song 'I'm with Stupid' with the famous anti-Bush and Blair TOTP performance. Hypocritical or ironic? Or just plain 'foolish'? I wonder?

Neil increasingly resembles that quote about Stephen Fry - 'a stupid person's idea of a clever person'. It was amusing last night to hear him reveal the new lyric 'Intelligent people have had their say/It's time for the foolish to get their way' shortly after he'd expounded upon his authentic Northernness: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics- ... m-36598599

Some here seen to think Great Britain is still an empire ruling the world. I hated seeing the country vote in favour of Brexit, but now the consequences must be dealt with. The UK (basically England) will be an island (literally) with hardly any industry or services they export (apart from entertainment and academia). The financial success of London is based on the EU. The UK will become what they were in the early 80s again, a noncompeting economy with nostalgia for the past. Sad but true. There are no benefits for EU, so why should ‘we’ (I am from the EU) give in to the wishes of a country that wants to leave?

I had no interest in the IQ rub-fest of his new book of lyrics talk. I wish Neil had made clear his political opinion at the time of Brexit and I'd have voted the way he wanted me to.

Unfortunately, I like millions of others, voted against increased federalism. Neil is a federalist, He even says that he prefers centralised federal government in place of nation states. That is fair enough. But don't write snide songs about the stupidity of those who have different opinions to you. Doubtlessly, he likes open borders too; well I bet he has a lock on his front door.

Europe is 50 countries and we are to join those 23 outside the trading, and now political bloc, of the EU.

We voted to leave, not for some favourable deal because none was promised and the EU were never going to do anything but punish us. They're embittered bureaucrats in their ivory towers and now want to get Britain to align its tax rates with those of the bloc as a part of any future trade deal, as attempt to blunt our competitive edge. Has anyone even asked WHY the EU, a trading block, needs it's own army?

We voted to leave the EU, the customs union and the ECJ. The government funded Remain campaign and Project Fear could not have made the negative os leaving any clearer. WE have not left yet, so no one knows what the outcome might be. I might be wrong or Neil might be wrong. But I am proud for rebelling against the arrogance of the ruling elites in Brussels, and their Project.

It was the first march I've ever seen where people were happily marching AGAINST independence, with the flags of another power painting over their faces. Hope they get the dye out of their pillows...

He did say that it was not necessarily about Brexit to be fair that the song could be about a lot of things.
As he said "Just fill in the blanks "

"The financial success of London is based on the EU"......and that's the problem. Neil and his Chelsea neighbours in a bubble of privilege. Heaven forbid that the rest of the country have an opinion different to the metropolitan chattering classes.

This is off-topic. Hopefully the thread will be deleted. But here goes ...

“We have written a song called Give Stupidity a Chance which is a satire. It’s close to a protest song, but it’s also funny.”

As a leaver, I have no problem at all with the way remainers love posting on their Twitters about how clever they are and how stupid the leavers are. They had a rough time of it, it ain't nice to lose, we all have to pull together now. If it makes them feel better to think they're smarter - go for it. I have no problem with that. I'm genuinely delighted if they think like that. Whatever cheers them up, and helps us move forward together. One country now.

I did read that interview with Neil in the Guardian in which he referred to the Austro-Hungarian empire in a rather "Stephen-Fry-clever" sort of way. I don't want to knock all arts students as I am sure the vast majority are absolultely excellent, but I remember from my days in university that there were a few arts students who went around like they were the absolute intelligentsia - because they had just read a book. And that made them so clever. Because they had read a book. As if other people can't read a book.

Ah, I don't want to knock them. They're sweet people. And they are very, very, very clever indeed. A++++. Top of the class, all of them.

It all depends on your political viewpoint. EU is not about federalism, but about peace and stability in Europe. GB (minus Scotland that is, because they are not happy about Brexit and will pay double the price of England and Wales) may nowadays only occupy only parts of Spain and Ireland, they still feel they are the centre of the Commonwealth of nations.

Screw the EU! China is doing great without belonging to the EU.

So Oakey, you think that it's acceptable for an unelected body to be rejecting budgets of nationally elected government of member states. That's not peace, that's central control - federalism.

alig wrote: Tue 23 Oct 2018, 7:08 pm Screw the EU! China is doing great without belonging to the EU.

Thr U.K is definitely not China, the U.K is not a super power anymore, and haven't been for a long time.

Tom Angel wrote: Tue 23 Oct 2018, 7:14 pm So Oakey, you think that it's acceptable for an unelected body to be rejecting budgets of nationally elected government of member states. That's not peace, that's central control - federalism.

Unelected as in a Queen? ;-p

Well if there’s one currency then there needs to be some budgetary control. Sad to see that even members in this board feel like this about the EU. But I guess GB can start making Jaguars, Rovers and Minis again for their subjects to buy, start digging up coal again to fire up their heaters, import Kangaroo meat from Down Under and trade fur with Canada. And make deals with Trump as we all know American cars are great too.

But I don’t live in the UK so who am I to comment. I do have a lot of friends from the UK though who feel Brexit is the worst that had happened to their country in recent years.

Can this thread be moved to off topic please? Discussions like these never lead to any individuals changing their own standpoint and belong underneath items on the BBC News website where it's easy to ignore them.

Thanks.

andrewthomas100 wrote: Tue 23 Oct 2018, 11:58 amAs a leaver, I have no problem at all with the way remainers love posting on their Twitters about how clever they are and how stupid the leavers are.

The demographics of who voted for which position are pretty stark - rather like the demographic breakdown of those in the US who believe in climate change.