Pet Shop Boys Community

Here it is at 18 in the first week : http://allcharts.org/music/world/albums.htm

And here it is 13 with sales of 89 200 : http://www.geocities.com/inthitlists/albums.htm

Don't know which one counts or which one is more reliable...

Nightlife was a quite a success i europe by psb standards. Went gold i Germany in notime. But it was a bit of dissapointment in UK.

Ramzy wrote:'I'm with Stupid' a worse single than 'Minimal'? Yes, and I suppose 'God willing' is the obvious smash hit. Categorically, 'Minimal' is as close as this album gets to Nightlife. It doesn't seem to have anything to say and it's repetitive and insubstantial. The orchestra's a nice touch but the song doesn't carry it. Yes, it might be nice and 120bpm-safe, but what is there really to it? At least 'I'm with Stupid' had something memorable about it. People who hear 'Minimal' on the radio are going to be totally, completely passed by by it.

Minimal is their best single since Can you forgive her?

Undertaker wrote:

Reality Check wrote: Given the date of your post how on earth would you know this so accurately,considering all you know are the first week sales of Fundamenatal (26.5k) which show an 8k increase from the previous 2 albums' FIRST WEEK SALES (17-18k). The cumulative sales total is whats important/relevant for albums and surely you don't have such info yet to make such assured statements as in the above quote?

Because i do, which you later had to admit to. So, do we get to know what bitter Erasure fan you are? In your first post, you have managed to embarress yourself already by admitting 2 minutes later i was right.

Reality Check wrote:
As i've mentioned, the peak popsition or first week chart placing of an album is hardly much claim to its remarkable OVERALL success (ALL the recent PSB albums have plunged down the chart never to be seen again,indicative of small fanbase only buying,resulting in total sales still close to the first week sale - given the lowest UK certification, silver,is a shipment of 60k, they'll never see a gold cert again at this rate even if your unsupported...

I don't care what you have mentioned. 21 years on, nearly 30,000 sold in it's first week in the U.K alone. No other synth pop band can match that, infact, not even come near it. Can't argue with the fan base comment. Thats obviously true but getting a silver is better than an album selling 1,500 copies and not even reaching the top 100.

Just for the record, Nightbird is a decent album but it's not my fault it sold so poorly. Union Street got what it deserved, number 102 So coming on here with your bitterness just serves up a load of embarressment for yourself.

Reality Check wrote:
While i agree it is a remarkable achievement to still have such current chart achievements for such a mega long + successful career

At least your debut post had something wothwhile to say.

Reality Check wrote:
comparing how much PSB cost Parlo etc to maintain,promo etc. and the amount their more modest recent record sales have made i'm not sure, on balance, how long there viability to a record co. biz will remain unchanged but thats not to mean the end of PSB just there current type of existance.

So, going by that logic, Parlophone would have got rid after Nightlife and Release didn't sell too well. So coming on here to delibratly wind people up hasn'y worked, has it (compared to all the other synthpop bands, the 2 albums still beat the rest, hands down)

Reality Check wrote:Well if its makes such a difference as you infer,then thats not exactly a positive for maintaining PSBs success is it.Are they not worth pushing to the general public anymore?......at least they had the docu.

I never said it made a difference. Maybe they thought against it after the flop of Nightbird. 10k overall after t.v advertisement? Oh dear....

Undertaker wrote: indeed it has already dropped to #18 from #1 in the world album chart.

Number 1 eh!! Fantastic. I didn't know that. At least you are good for something.


Dave

Oooooh, you showed him.

I love how the paranoia sets in, the fingers begin to shake... it *must* be an Erasure fan... they're here to take over the PSB forum... the e-fans are here!... palms sweating... must not panic... must respond with unintelligent, quarrelsome, empty post...

pulse wrote:
I love how the paranoia sets in, the fingers begin to shake... it *must* be an Erasure fan... they're here to take over the PSB forum... the e-fans are here!... palms sweating... must not panic... must respond with unintelligent, quarrelsome, empty post...

I'd love to count how many of your 60 odd posts are in reply to me or have something to do with me. I'm getting worried now. Do you dress up in your mothers clothes and carry a carving knife around?

I mean whatever next? A PSB thread on the Erasure forum getting locked by YOU. ''THIS TOPIC IS LOCKED'' yells stephano What was that about paranoia? What a moby.

Dave

Undertaker wrote:

pulse wrote:
I love how the paranoia sets in, the fingers begin to shake... it *must* be an Erasure fan... they're here to take over the PSB forum... the e-fans are here!... palms sweating... must not panic... must respond with unintelligent, quarrelsome, empty post...

I mean whatever next? A PSB thread on the Erasure forum getting locked by you. ''THIS TOPIC IS LOCKED'' What was that about paranoia? What a moby.

Dave

It was actually locked as per the request of the administrator because *you* had become personally rude and insulting to various members. People can read right through you. Everywhere you go you bring everything into the mud.

pulse wrote:

Undertaker wrote:

pulse wrote:
I love how the paranoia sets in, the fingers begin to shake... it *must* be an Erasure fan... they're here to take over the PSB forum... the e-fans are here!... palms sweating... must not panic... must respond with unintelligent, quarrelsome, empty post...

I mean whatever next? A PSB thread on the Erasure forum getting locked by you. ''THIS TOPIC IS LOCKED'' What was that about paranoia? What a moby.

Dave

It was actually locked as per the request of the administrator because *you* had become personally rude and insulting to various members. People can read right through you. Everywhere you go you bring everything into the mud.

Erasure can only dream of "Fundamental" sales. At the end of the day it isn't a case of paranoia, "Fundamental" has done okay and that's the bottom line.

joncool5 wrote:
Erasure can only dream of "Fundamental" sales. At the end of the day it isn't a case of paranoia, "Fundamental" has done okay and that's the bottom line.

Well, not to take away from Fundamental's "okay" sales, but I think Erasure would aspire for much better performance than even that (as would PSB) - now *that* is the bottom line.

By the way, where's Undertaker's enthusiastic midweek stats report this week?

pulse wrote: It was actually locked as per the request of the administrator because *you* had become personally rude and insulting to various members. People can read right through you. Everywhere you go you bring everything into the mud.

Which is why i got a PM from a moderator stating you, along with 4 or 5 others (including me) were to blame. I don't think your ''rotting rats'' statement went down very well at all...

Dave

pulse wrote:

joncool5 wrote:
Erasure can only dream of "Fundamental" sales. At the end of the day it isn't a case of paranoia, "Fundamental" has done okay and that's the bottom line.

Well, not to take away from Fundamental's "okay" sales, but I think Erasure would aspire for much better performance than even that (as would PSB) - now *that* is the bottom line.

By the way, where's Undertaker's enthusiastic midweek stats report this week?

Jesus, i get the feeling i'm going to come home one day and find a rabbit being bolied on the cooker. Can you please stop referring to me in every post you make.

Dave

Undertaker wrote:Thumbs up to Blueswan. What he said.

Dave

Once again Undertaker i have to point that your beliefs ARE NOT BASED in credible/true/music industry accepted fact thus they are at least intentionally benign errors due to your passionately bias viewpoint (ie. your emotional brains all or nothing/only yes or no thinking is taking precedence over the more sophisticated higher functioning intellect).I provided links to a lot of credible evidence and the accepted explainations concerning albums sales(which can be found(or asked about in) in any credible chart forum eg.http://www.ukmix.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=5 or http://www.chart-refugees.com) in my response to you........ and all Blueswan's alleged 'facts' contradict that posts information and prediction.


Anyway i don't have the time to relentlessly battle your imo ( from past experience of you in band forums) long term biggotted views in this area ,i have given my alternative view point and hope people that value logic and science can see who's viewpoints are backed up by facts and evidence rather than misleading but emotionally preferable desperate beliefs...'wishful thinking' - unfortunately that does not make it so in our existance/reality,well at least as far as science is concerned there is no credible objective evidence for it.

BlueSwan wrote:Sales does matter though. If Fundemental only sold 50.000 copies or so, it is doubtful whether we'd see another PSB record. And if we did it would be decidedly low-budget and not an expensive Trevor Horn production.

But the sales level that PSB currently enjoys is perfectly acceptable, I agree with that. Not too many bands still sell close to a million copies with every studio album after 20+ years in the business.

In conclusion i will show how false and misleading Blueswan's statements about recent previous album sales are.Take a look at the following link;

http://www.ifpi.org/site-content/platin ... years.html


It is the european album chart certification site, where 1 X Planitum in this continental mkt is equal to 1 Million shipments (ie not neccessaryly the actual cold hard sales level which could actually be less).Can you find PSB's recent albums,bilingual(09/96), nightlife(11/99) + (05/02) release) anywhere in the yearly results?


As for the UK sales of recent PSB albums firstweek sales i quoted in my previous post see the following link ;


http://www.chartsingles.net/news/music-news/2012/

Extending their album chart career to more than 20 years, The Pet Shop Boys' latest set Fundamental debuts at number five on sales of 26,492 copies. Their 12th Top 10 album, its first single I'm With Stupid, reached number eight last month, charting as high as any Pet Shop Boys single in the last decade. Similarly, Fundamental had a better first week than the Pet Shop Boys' last two albums of new material - Release debuted at number seven on sales of 18,008 in 2002, and Nightlife, also debuted at number sevem on sales of 17,038 in 1999.(original source from ' chart bible' Music Week)

Hopefully this will show that the sales figures i gave originally where based on and agreed with universally music biz respected evidence.

Maybe Blueswan meant worldwide sales, not only european sales ?.

Fick wrote:Maybe Blueswan meant worldwide sales, not only european sales ?.

If i didn't have the knowledge i have on global album sales your question would be one of the first i would hope to raise.Sound reasoning on your part IMO.

However after the US market(where PSB have had negligable sales (cf. 1 MILLION) for all recent albums the chart posn.s i've seen listed on the forum,were around 70's, 80's, etc on first week of release before huge drops like everywhere else) the european market is the next biggest global mkt by far.Despite the huge populations of eg Russia ,China, overall sales( per capita) are tiny cf. what you might expect for such a population size, and dwafred by the sales of US + EU mkts.You can find all this info in the chart forums who links i left in my above post.



Here is a site that lists an exhaustative number of different charts from all parts of the world - notice how by far the majority of the boys more recent success lies in europe:


http://top40-charts.com/artist.php?aid=2153


You can get an idea of how recent PSB albums fare on a worldwide scale by looking at the progress of 'release' in the following WW chart,as you will see compared to the long lived,consistently high charting platinum sellers on the chart there is no way from 'Release's' chart placements/movements it could ever get close to 1 million WW sales.....

http://www.mediatraffic.de/albums.htm

week 2 TW #23 LW #18 - Pet Shop Boys - Fundamental

.....anyway i've tried to answer your qu.(despite my time limmitation)but has Blueswan come up with credible accepted evidence for his claims of these 1M selling recent albums(apart from the poster on this forum who merely thought they did but was not sure at all ) OR will Blueswan admit to be mistaken to clear this unecessary but gigantic misleading claim?

Undertaker wrote:

Reality_check wrote:Given the date of your post how on earth would you know this so accurately,considering all you know are the first week sales of Fundamenatal (26.5k) which show an 8k increase from the previous 2 albums' FIRST WEEK SALES (17-18k). The cumulative sales total is whats important/relevant for albums and surely you don't have such info yet to make such assured statements as in the above quote?

Because i do, which you later had to admit to. So, do we get to know what bitter Erasure fan you are? In your first post, you have managed to embarress yourself already by admitting 2 minutes later i was right.

Only after 2 minutes? Really? is that good? well what does it say for you when you manage to embarrass yourself after the first sentence you write in practically EVERY POST YOU CREATE !

How can i admit to something i don't know either(as its not yet available in the present) ( i can try to make a good guess from past performance but its not certainty/fact),i've only mentioned first week sales to say;

Undertaker wrote:
The album has sold far more copies than expected. It's already easily beaten the previous 2 albums' sales.

You would have to look in the future to see the total chart run of "fundamental" (that is when it left the chart/stopped selling to a significant degree - in practice you would have to name a time when you expect it would not sell significantly more/return to chart etc )

My point if in comming weeks Fundamental slips faster down the chart than the last 2 albums it MAY not sell much more in TOTAL (though unlikely it may sell less in the end( perhaps the [previous 2 renterted the chart at a low postion when a single is released....how do you know for CERTAIN fundamental' will also renter the chart with future single release)....the point is you can't claim something in comparisson when you don't know the final result!!! - imo it seems you don't understand how albums sell + accumulate there final sales tally at all).I mean do you even Know what the total final sales(not certifications) are for the last 2 albums? Can you provide a link to back up your bold but muddled claim?


As for being erasure fan i never said that,you are assuming or hoping i am to try to discredit what i say by giving me some alternative motive or bias.In fact i was a short term vistor in the same Erasure forum you were, during their last years 'comeback' doing exactly the same thing i am here trying to fight the chart ignorance and misinformation . Heated fanatics (like yourself) are so irrational + will believe anything to prop up there own hopes/desire/beliefs + end up spreading endless amounts of misinfo to the rational fanbase who then suffer more dissapointment than needed because their expectations are based on the fantasies of a fanatic rather than reality.Naturally fanbases like Erasure, PSB are older and likely have countless other interests and commitments in life, not all will have time to discover masses of chart knowledge to be sure what a heated fanatic says is completely valid.

Undertasker wrote: I don't care what you have mentioned. 21 years on, nearly 30,000 sold in it's first week in the U.K alone. No other synth pop band can match that, infact, not even come near it.

Your claim is entirely subjective and is all relative.you are clutching at straws to maintain your reality defying belief about the current success of PSB achievements ANYWAY you can.You do this by lowering the bar/reducing the competion,by putting up PSB achievements against such a relatively small sample as compared to all musical acts - you DEVALUE what you are trying to say.It like when Banarama fans say the Ramas are the most succesful all girl group in the UK - which only refers to the length of time they had their first hits, even if current success means just getting inside the top 40 still,surely the spice girls not only sold infinitely more records but made a far bigger cultural impact!!.
IMO you are using propaganda / spin to convince us of your views because ther are no facts or evidence to support what you say - its all fiction.Its like Jason Donovan saying he is the most successful MALE austrailain solo - singer in the UK charts,even if his next record(if he ever has one) just gets into the top100(although i doubt it would )

Undertaker wrote: Thats obviously true but getting a silver is better than an album selling 1,500 copies and not even reaching the top 100.

I'm not sure but haven't PSB had a better album success history overall, but what you say is totally true HOWEVER in comparrison to the latest U2 album(i know,i know i'm not allowed to compare because they're aren't a synthesizer band(HOW convienient!) etc etc etc)'HOW TO DISMANTLE AN ATOMIC BOMB' 4 x Platinum

http://www.bpi.co.uk/platinum/platinum.html

...BUT if you could then it makes the silver + the 1,500 selling records look as insignificant and GNAT like as each other!!!

Undertaker wrote:

Reality Check wrote:
comparing how much PSB cost Parlo etc to maintain,promo etc. and the amount their more modest recent record sales have made i'm not sure, on balance, how long there viability to a record co. biz will remain unchanged but thats not to mean the end of PSB just there current type of existance.

So, going by that logic, Parlophone would have got rid after Nightlife and Release didn't sell too well.

Going by your posts i don't feel confident of your interpretation of logic.Why would they get rid of PSB after just one or two poor sellers considering the long successful history + partnership they had together,surely they would have some confidence PSBs might become significantly comercial successful again,they would give them so much chance ,leeway,financial loss for so long.And thats what i meant by on balance eventually if their is never an upturn in comercial success the debt/cost of the group may become economically unviable.

Undertaker wrote: So coming on here to delibratly wind people up hasn'y worked, has it

More assumptions that just happen to fit your unsupported beliefs.I explained my motives about reducing overall emotional grief among people.Winding people up would be trying to upset people with -ve statements like they WILL be dumped, tHey will be no more,none of which i even alluded to. i mean i didn't even say for certain they would leave parlo it was merely a possibility to keep an eye out(evidence) for in the future

Undertaker wrote:
I never said it made a difference. Maybe they thought against it after the flop of Nightbird. 10k overall after t.v advertisement? Oh dear....

No but you mentioned it as something to take into account when considering the albums relative success...therefore you implied its absence made a possible difference at least.As for your NB mention well its good parlo are sensible with their money,hopefully they won't rip us off as much as they could in our purchases in the future with them.

reality_check wrote:.....anyway i've tried to answer your qu.(despite my time limmitation)but has Blueswan come up with credible accepted evidence for his claims of these 1M selling recent albums(apart from the poster on this forum who merely thought they did but was not sure at all ) OR will Blueswan admit to be mistaken to clear this unecessary but gigantic misleading claim?

Are you a paranoid schizophrenic? Where exactly have I made any misleading claims? As far as I can deduct from your posts you seem to have deluded yourself into thinking that I've claimed that Release or Nightlife sold in excess of a million copies. Please point out where I made such a claim.

The fact is that I have never made such a claim for the simple reason that Release did NOT sell a million copies (and I've never believed that Nightlife did either). In fact, I have earlier questioned Neil's assertion that it sold 750.000 copies - I believe it has probably sold in the neighbourhood of 600.000-700.000 copies.

What I HAVE written in previous posts is that while albums like Release, Nightlife and now Fundamental, haven't exactly set the charts on fire, they have sold a reasonable amount given the realistic expectations of their record company. Selling in the NEIGHBOURHOOD of one million copies (NOT a million, but more than a half, OK?) is perfectly acceptable for a pop group with 20+ years in the business. A tally like that will be more than sufficient to make a profit, unless you're recording a very expensive album and using lots of money on promotion. Furthermore, PSB is attractive for parlophone because their back catalogue will get a small boost everytime they release a new album. Back catalogue sales are very attractive to record companies because there are no expenses involved.