So what has to be the new single after all?

[Pet Shop Girl]

I am sure that any other band like Sugababes would not record a song like 'I made my excuses and left' would not have recorded it in the slow manner that PSB did. And 'Fundamental' can be a mainstream success with the right PR like U2 always manage to get out of each album.

If U2 recorded 'Fundamental' it would be a mainstream success.
U2 have an image that appeals to the mainstream. Most U2 PR are stories of Bono saving the world from oppression and confronting politicians.
He's like the Amnesty International Rambo with a band. The everyman superhero fighting for justice on a global scale. Mother Teresa meets Sumner Redstone.
I don't think it really matters what U2 releases, it will be a mainstream success.

You are right on that one Synature. I am sick of Bono and his constant talk of saving the rain forest and recycling his sandals.

[patrick]

I am sure that any other band like Sugababes would not record a song like 'I made my excuses and left' would not have recorded it in the slow manner that PSB did.

...which is exactly my point.

And 'Fundamental' can be a mainstream success with the right PR like U2 always manage to get out of each album.

But U2 don't record albums that sound like Fundamental, do they?

[patrick]

Where did I write that Fundamental was a mainstream record?!

This is what you wrote: If anyone else (read current teeny bopper or Paris Hilton) had released Fundamental it would have been top 5 at worst.

If you would like to make the bizarre argument that Top 5 albums are not mainstream then be my guest.

You're still evading the question: what do you call a "mainstream record" or a "hit". You keep on harping about these as if there was an objective criteria or formula.

It's one thing to be able to predict hits - it's another thing entirely to have enough perspective to know what isn't going to be a smash. Off the top of your head, how many recent hit singles can you name that have been recorded in ragtime style? You mention Bob the Builder but how many similar cases have their been? Please, let logic be your friend before your next baseless rant.

I agree that image is part of the problem. These guys are approaching middle age. They're not cool. They're not sexy. They're not hip. But the fact of the matter is that they're also not writing songs for the contemporary radio scene. There's nothing wrong with that, but it doesn't mean we should stick our heads in the sand and pretend that Twentieth Century would be a smash if only it was sung by Robbie Williams.

[patrick]

If U2 recorded 'Fundamental' it would be a mainstream success.

Has everything that U2 has done been a hit? I don't think it works that way.

[Pet Shop Girl]

If U2 recorded 'Fundamental' it would be a mainstream success.

Has everything that U2 has done been a hit? I don't think it works that way.

You know what, Neil may not want to be a mainstream success. So lets just leave it at that. We can just simply enjoy their music and if you like 'Fundamental' then great! If you do not, then there are issues.

[Synature]

If U2 recorded 'Fundamental' it would be a mainstream success.

Has everything that U2 has done been a hit? I don't think it works that way.

'patrick', I did put a smiley after that statement. It was mostly meant as humor.
IMO, I think U2 could put out an album of bird calls and it would sell. Obviously I'm being over the top but I do believe they have surpassed the point of being judged for their music.

[patrick]

Obviously I'm being over the top but I do believe they have surpassed the point of being judged for their music.

If this is true, then sales figures for their singles and albums should be constant rather than fluxuating. I don't think we'll find that's the case. I can see what you're getting at but I don't think it really applies to the Fundamental issue the way you think it does because the PSB too have surpassed the point of being judged for their music.

[Rent]

blah blah blah

Oh we get it.

What kind of obtuse logic drives you to conclude that liking Fundamental is "stick[ing one's] head in the sand"?! Sorry to break it to you but *shock-horror* some people do like Fundamental. DEAL WITH IT.

I also note you're still dodging answering the question. Just spouting unsubstantiated rubbish (your so-called 'truths') & insults but not a shred of logic to be forthcoming.

Well, since rational argument is a foreign concept to you, I'll let you go on jabbering like a brainless parrot.

PS: Oh and you might also try reading people's posts before letting loose so much of your incoherent verbal diarrhea.

[!]

Why's it always patrick that's involved in these 'debates'?

[Synature]

Obviously I'm being over the top but I do believe they have surpassed the point of being judged for their music.

If this is true, then sales figures for their singles and albums should be constant rather than fluxuating. I don't think we'll find that's the case. I can see what you're getting at but I don't think it really applies to the Fundamental issue the way you think it does because the PSB too have surpassed the point of being judged for their music.

My original comments were about U2's PR / image.
Just a light hearted reply to 'Pet Shop Girl's comment.
Nothing really to do with any 'Fundamental' issue.
Over and out...

[patrick]

What kind of obtuse logic drives you to conclude that liking Fundamental is "stick[ing one's] head in the sand"?!

What an astonishing rhetorical contortion you've gone through here. I haven't concluded that "liking Fundamental is sticking one's head in the sand" and I defy you to find a direct quote of mine indicating anything similar.

What I object to is your absurd notion - and I'm quoting you directly here - that "if anyone else (read current teeny bopper or Paris Hilton) had released Fundamental it would have been top 5 at worst." That is the attitude I described as sticking one's head in the sand.

And of course now we have Paris selling just 75,000 units and bombing, which puts paid to the notion that we're dealing solely with image. On some level the music matters. Those "current teeny bopper[s]" aren't recording songs like Indefinite leave to remain and that might just have something to do with who's charting where.

Sorry to break it to you but *shock-horror* some people do like Fundamental.

Including me. Reading isn't enough; comprehension is also required.

I also note you're still dodging answering the question.

The one about how to define mainstream hits? If you have to ask, you'll never get it.

[patrick]

Why's it always patrick that's involved in these 'debates'?

Because he doesn't suffer fools gladly.

[stew]

still dont fully understand why Sodom wont be a single myself....

[dVTB]

I'm just listening to live recordings of PSB... - And I just realised which live track should be a double A-side with the new single, on cd1...

of course: After All !!
It's the Fundamental song that's not on Fundamental. It's one of Pet Shop Boys' most recent masterpieces. A better song than 11 of the 12 Fundamental tracks, no matter how good Fundamental is.

Coupling that song to Numb or any other single they pick, is just perfect. It would give deserved attention to Battleship Potemkin and to one of PSB's best tracks ever, and to the upcoming live album.