Political correctness vs. common sense.

[Dipso]

Whilst it is true to say that many immigrants cannot speak English it is also true that many want to learn English but are prevented from doing so because of the MASSIVE cut in ESOL spending by the government in recent years

Exactly. The government officially wants everyone to speak English, but has slashed provision to the bone. The waiting lists for free ESOL classes for adults are phenomenal.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/200 ... sh-lessons

The students at my school pay £250 *per week* for 20 hours tuition. It is obviously out of the reach of most people. (Most of my students are post-graduates who are sponsored by their government or employer. They are the lucky minority.)

Anyway, if people feel so very strongly about people in their communities learning English, then why not volunteer to give free classes at the local community centre?

[raggatwin]

That's a fair enough point, but I personally wouldn't move to, let's say France, without knowing the French language well enough to at the very least be able to get by first. Again, a common sense thing.
StevePSB

That said, a lot of them are here on the scrounge and a lot illegally. There was a good documentary on t.v this week about how they get in. They are that desperate, they cling to moving lorries and are hanging on underneath.

Can you prove this assertion with statistics? Why do you refer to them as though they are objects and not real people like you and me? There should be real debate around immigration and it shouldn't be based conducted on the basis of such hearsay.

[glennjridge]

if there is darwinism in our existence maybe a bit of the concept is in society also.

you move to a new country and dont learn the language whether because of a long line for free english or one doesnt want to learn english, well then,fair or unfair, you put yourself in a position that will have a negative effect on your social and earning potential.

[Undertaker]

Can you prove this assertion with statistics? Why do you refer to them as though they are objects and not real people like you and me? There should be real debate around immigration and it shouldn't be based conducted on the basis of such hearsay.

First of all, your quote of my post indicates that i'm labelling them all the same way, which i dont and i certainly don't see immigrants as ''objects''.

I have no facts but i do know somebody who use to work for immigration and also acted as a translator for people coming in from Croatia, FYROM, Bosnia and places such as Czech Republic. He's told of people actually flying to Britain to claim benefits and fly home again. There are people who claim benefits for children who are left behind at home.

There are plenty of reports of thousands of immigrants claiming handouts. They are easily accessible. Whether you want ot believe them, is another matter but there has to be some truth in them.

My opinion would be that if they want handouts, then they should earn it, shouldn't they?

[Dipso]

There are always going to be people who try to scam the system. The vast majority do not, however. It isn't as if some UK nationals don't try to do the same thing too:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/south_west/7955265.stm

Any loopholes that allow people to claim benefits that they are not entitled to should have course be closed. Fraud is fraud, regardless of nationality.

As for so-called "handouts", asylum seekers are legally not allowed to work. What are they supposed to do while their applications are being considered?

[Undertaker]

There are always going to be people who try to scam the system. The vast majority do not, however. It isn't as if some UK nationals don't try to do the same thing too:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/south_west/7955265.stm

A different argument to be fair. We were discussing the subject not long ago actually but cant remember what topic. Labour have manged to turn Britain into a goldmine for the British lazy bastard. People actually have kids to make money.

Someone's daughter who i work with has just had a child. She is a single parent because she doesn't know who the father is. From having the kid, this lass has been given a 3 bedroomed house and claims £400 a week. Staggering. Thats probably double a lot of wage packets that hard working people take home.

[Deschanel]

Drunk Woman at Party: "Oh! Did your family come over on the Mayflower?"

Gore Vidal: "“My family didn’t come over on the Mayflower; we sent the servants ahead to get the cottage ready.”

[homer1972]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/nott ... 956570.stm

[Patrick Bateman]

Exactly. The government officially wants everyone to speak English, but has slashed provision to the bone. The waiting lists for free ESOL classes for adults are phenomenal.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/200 ... sh-lessons

The students at my school pay £250 *per week* for 20 hours tuition. It is obviously out of the reach of most people. (Most of my students are post-graduates who are sponsored by their government or employer. They are the lucky minority.)

Anyway, if people feel so very strongly about people in their communities learning English, then why not volunteer to give free classes at the local community centre?

Can't they just watch Sesame Street?

[Dipso]

Well, that would be a step-up from the current government provision!

FYI, the postmaster in question has now left his job...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/nott ... 956570.stm

[df118junkie]

In my opinion, genuine refugees should be welcomed and helped appropriately. Those who are coming here for the sake of it should have to have at least a basic grasp of English AND be willing to improve on their current standard. ALL should be willing to adapt to the British way of life and British Cultures and laws. Those who don't can catch the return flight/ferry/lorry trailer, etc back home.

I agree. It's the same here in California - bending over backwards to accomodate Spanish speaking immigrants (mostly illegal at first)...

[glennjridge]

I'm just wondering how long till my area gets it first donkey show

[patrick]

I agree. It's the same here in California - bending over backwards to accomodate Spanish speaking immigrants (mostly illegal at first)...

Can you define "bending over backwards" here? Because I live in Southern California and yes, people without my skin color are everywhere, but no, I've never once run into an untranslatable situation. And even if I had ... so what?

There's a little plaque at the base of the Statue of Liberty. It's time to shit or get off the pot.

[meiakitty]

Part of my former job was to teach how to cope with culture shock.
There are many logical reasons behind the lack of cultural assimilation from immigrants, but in my opinion, immigrants should try their hardest to become part of a new culture. I'm not asking them to forget their roots, just to respectfully integrate them in the new host country.
I believe everyone can learn a foreign language: no courses are required. The best way to learn is to find yourself in a new country where no one speaks your native language. The brain will do the rest. I've seen many people learning like that and so did I.

[JSDOUVRES]

So the guy is forced to leave his job due to petitions against him! Unreal!
Doesn't surprise me though because that is what Britain is turning into more and more.
I was back in the UK a few weeks back and I was shocked by the number of Polish and Eastern Europeans that are there now, I knew the number was high but even I didn't realize quite how high it was.
I worked in a hospital until 2001 and recently spoke to a friend who works in the maternity unit and she told me that there is a huge number of Eastern European women having children and it is no coincidence that these women have only been in the UK a year or two and have the right to housing when they have the child.
Britain is simply being used by people as a get out from their own poorer countries which is surely not what Europe should be about. I have nothing personal against these people and I would do the same myself but how can it be right to take so much from a country when you have given so little?
I have a brother and sister who both work their arses off and all they can afford is a room in shared houses and have no right to any kind of benefit's with god knows how many years of wait for any kind of council flat or house yet a foreigner has the right to a council house if they have a kid after just a year of being here. This is wrong and must be changed. I'd like to see a 5 year block on housing benefits for all new migrants and at least that way they would have paid something towards the state as well as proving they are committed to living and working in the UK. If they want a child then fine but support it yourself. All this stuff I hear about people sending money home and yet claiming various benefits is a disgrace and needs to be stopped. And another thing is that I'd like to know how many Britains have gone the other way? Not too many sending money home I'd bet. A free Europe should give people the same benefit's and opportunities both ways but that is certainly not true with Eastern Europe.
Once again I want to say that I have nothing at all against Polish people or any other Eastern European and if I was them I would 100% do the same thing. Doesn't make it correct or fair though.
Anyway going back to the post office guy, He is absolutely correct to say what he did and the people who did the petition are typically the type of people who have no care for Britain at all and quite why they live there in the first place is a mystery to me. Then again when you look at where they came from I suppose it is pretty obvious why.