Pet Shop Boys Community

No Muscle Mary wrote:I've met some people from the North in the past who would hate to be mistaken as being from the republic.
It's never bothered me when I've been mistaken for a nationality other than my own. Does bother some people though.

Probably people who are biased towards the presumption that they may be affiliated with Ireland?

Some interesting discussion(s) going on. (Well, 2 out of 3.) On the UK/England/Scotland/Ireland/North/Republic thing.
Because it's overlapping issues of history, ethnicity, nationhood, time. And no one is "wrong", and everyone speaking has very valid points.

About England/UK, Drico has excellent thoughts on the subject of "sphere of influence", culturally and politically, where the English have dominated and defined a lot of what "Britishness" is. But I tend to agree with Fugitive; while it might be forgivable for someone far-flung to occasionally use the terms interchangeably, ultimately I don't think is for an educated adult who's taken more than ten seconds' interest in the matter in their lives. It's not hard to seperate "British" from "English", really. I understand the sensitivities of the Scots and Welsh and those nine Manx separatists.
(Crazy partiers those guys).

And in Paddy's discussion with Mary, again no one's wrong, valid points, all respected. My dad's from Athleague, my mom's from Derry, so the difference between the Republic and the North is something I've been living with my whole life, experiencing, and thinking a lot about. I think I'm quite a bit older than you Paddy, and I'm truly thrilled that so much has changed since then, for the better.

I fully and wholeheartedly support your identification as being from Ireland, you are. (Why do you think I call it "Derry"? ) I think Mary's polite and sincere questions come from back then, there really was a Wall, a separation that was very real, as real as the soldiers in the streets when I was a kid there. And the blockades, the barbed wire, the dogs, the pat-downs and check-points, the bomb scares and car-searches. Derry in 1977 was intense, there were tanks in the streets. And I saw it all with my own eyes- it really was a different, bad time.

Anyway Mary's point I think was about the real cultural differences between the two parts of the island. And Drico's idea of "Sphere of influence" comes into play here, crossing the border then really did feel like a different country. The red mailboxes and telephone booths, the queen's picture on postage stamps, the Crown insignia on the soldiers' uniforms as they searched your mum's handbag.. it did feel like a different country, then.

It's the greatest happiness of my life that so much of that is in the past. Globalization, the EU, the peace process, Ireland's cultural growth and maturity is leaps and bounds better than it was. Sorry for prattling on- I am happy to be Irish, but I'm fond of the English, Scottish, Welsh as well. Even those tax-dogers on the Isle of Jersey. Past is past, onward and upward. Best to you Paddy, you're absolutely correct. Just (wordily) trying to suss some of the reasons it's so..complicated, and perhaps why Mary had curiosity there.

That's exactly it Deschanel. I've met people from all sides of the equation in the North - I met a guy who wouldn't have cared less if it was run by Ireland or Britain, I've met staunch republicans and I worked with a Unionist girl in London who was absolutely disgusted that she, in her own words, had come to England to get away from Paddys and found herself surrounded by them. An Australian mate of mine also dated a girl in the North who refused to let him cross the border cause she made out that the Irish were, also in her words, 'animals'. And he seemed to take her word for it. I got him to come here a few years later and he was pleasantly surprised.
Hopefully a lot of those extremist attitudes are in the past.

Undertaker wrote:I can see what Mary means. She's not being rude in any way. I thought everyone knew the South as Ireland and the North as Northern Ireland.

Many of us from the north refer to ourselves as Irish and call our birthplace Ireland.

No Muscle Mary wrote:Whenever I'm abroad and people ask where I come from, when I say Ireland they know I mean the republic. I think if I was from the North I'd say I was from the North of Ireland or Northern Ireland to differentiate.
Paddy, does that mean if you're abroad you say you're from Ireland? Do people then assume you're from the south? Just curious.
Undertaker's right, I'm not meaning to be rude or insulting in any way. I'd only ever say I'm from the republic if people ask which part I'm from.
I do see your point that Ireland is the name of the whole island. I actually assumed that it was the official name of our country but no, it's Republic of Ireland or Eire. Like saying you're from Great Britain rather than England, Scotland or Wales. Now having said that, if someone asked, I'd never say 'I'm from the British Isles'. Yet I am.
I can see how calling our country Ireland is a bit insensitive from your perspective.

I'm in a similar boat to Paddy.
When people ask, I say I'm Irish. When they ask where from, I say Belfast.

Niall wrote:

No Muscle Mary wrote:Whenever I'm abroad and people ask where I come from, when I say Ireland they know I mean the republic. I think if I was from the North I'd say I was from the North of Ireland or Northern Ireland to differentiate.
Paddy, does that mean if you're abroad you say you're from Ireland? Do people then assume you're from the south? Just curious.
Undertaker's right, I'm not meaning to be rude or insulting in any way. I'd only ever say I'm from the republic if people ask which part I'm from.
I do see your point that Ireland is the name of the whole island. I actually assumed that it was the official name of our country but no, it's Republic of Ireland or Eire. Like saying you're from Great Britain rather than England, Scotland or Wales. Now having said that, if someone asked, I'd never say 'I'm from the British Isles'. Yet I am.
I can see how calling our country Ireland is a bit insensitive from your perspective.

I'm in a similar boat to Paddy.
When people ask, I say I'm Irish. When they ask where from, I say Belfast.

Greater part.

Can I share some cool news with the Irish in this thread?

My uncle in Derry has been a scholar, writer and teacher of Gaelic (Irish) his whole career. This week he found out his books and teaching program are being adopted by none other than Harvard University, for their Irish Studies program. It's a triumph, and I'm so effing thrilled for him.

http://www.derryjournal.com/journal/Der ... 5210529.jp

(Uncle Dick, or "Risteard", always reminded me of an absent-minded professor with a pipe. When his family visited us in NYC as a kid, he'd take me to the great museums in Manhattan-my folks never had the time-, gave me books, was just a splendid gent to me. He has 3 lovely daughters of his own, I was the bookish son he wished he had (he's said as much. He frowned on my comic books though.) Feel very lucky to have had an uncle like him. He opened up worlds to me.)

My uncle in Derry has been a scholar, writer and teacher of Gaelic (Irish) his whole career. This week he found out his books and teaching program are being adopted by none other than Harvard University, for their Irish Studies program. It's a triumph, and I'm so effing thrilled for him.

http://www.derryjournal.com/journal/Der ... 5210529.jp

I did an A-level in Irish, fair play to your uncle!

Thanks Paddy! My mom was the one who saw it on the Internet, and when she called them in Derry they were having a grand, happy celebration. I think Champagne was involved.

And congrats on your A-level. Dear gosh, I found Irish very hard to attempt to learn. It really is so different, my admiration for your A-level is immense, sir.

Paddymacall wrote:

Niall wrote:

No Muscle Mary wrote:Whenever I'm abroad and people ask where I come from, when I say Ireland they know I mean the republic. I think if I was from the North I'd say I was from the North of Ireland or Northern Ireland to differentiate.
Paddy, does that mean if you're abroad you say you're from Ireland? Do people then assume you're from the south? Just curious.
Undertaker's right, I'm not meaning to be rude or insulting in any way. I'd only ever say I'm from the republic if people ask which part I'm from.
I do see your point that Ireland is the name of the whole island. I actually assumed that it was the official name of our country but no, it's Republic of Ireland or Eire. Like saying you're from Great Britain rather than England, Scotland or Wales. Now having said that, if someone asked, I'd never say 'I'm from the British Isles'. Yet I am.
I can see how calling our country Ireland is a bit insensitive from your perspective.

I'm in a similar boat to Paddy.
When people ask, I say I'm Irish. When they ask where from, I say Belfast.

What part of Belfast?

Hi Paddy,
I'm from Bawnmore in Greencastle up the Shore Road.
We left to get away from the troubles and the lack of opportunity.
My sister just moved back to Belfast a few months ago but I haven't been home in 4 years.
What about you?

Fair dues to you for doing that A-level Paddy. I learned Irish all the way up through school and still found it a difficult language.

No Muscle Mary wrote:Fair dues to you for doing that A-level Paddy. I learned Irish all the way up through school and still found it a difficult language.

Cheers, was really difficult. Did my best, got a B in the end.

Hi Paddy,
I'm from Bawnmore in Greencastle up the Shore Road.
We left to get away from the troubles and the lack of opportunity.
My sister just moved back to Belfast a few months ago but I haven't been home in 4 years.
What about you?

Round NI area

Not far away at all!!!!!!!!!!

Paddy's 'hood is fab. I have a green outside my house, but he has a whole park! My dogs would love that.