The Pet Shop Boys and the Political

[Patrick Bateman]

I think you can trace the change in Neil's lyrics for most subjects, including politics. The early stuff is material he'd been writing before he was famous as a gay man in Thatcher's Britain. That's where most of the best stuff is, whether that's writing about being young and clubbing on Please or criticising the Tories on Opportunities, Shopping and King's Cross.

These days, he's a multimillionaire liberal celebrity, so obviously he writes songs about Trump and Putin. That's fine; I wouldn't expect someone like him to be acting like Kneecap, but the predictability is another indication of why their best material is in the first few albums, both musically and lyrically.

[Patrick Bateman]

This is utterly moronic - bizarre both to assume that Neil should have a solution despite identifying the (several) problem(s) or to assume that people like Neil are the problem. You're not buying off politicians when your bank balance is $14 million. What's that quote - rich people don't think people like Neil are rich. He doesn't "put a bank inside a car, inside a plane, inside a boat" as Robbie sings about the oligarchy.

He's a multimillionaire who thinks that a politician with vaguely left-wing policies like free internet access is the problem.

[Patrick Bateman]

And obviously I'm media illiterate because I think Neil's a bit of a berk.

[telys]

And obviously I'm media illiterate because I think Neil's a bit of a berk.

Forgive a non-native english speaker. What is a 'berk'?

(I know I can ask a search engine but this time I prefer the human interaction)

[NotInvisible]

You''ve re-invented dogmatic bigotism now applied to the political world. No wait, isn't it called fascism?

Er, no. On both counts. Words have definitions.

[markus]

Neil is an extremely self-aware and tightly controlled public figure who knows everyone watching, feels massive responsibility, and is not really allowed to say everything he thinks.

[NotInvisible]

Neil is an extremely self-aware and tightly controlled public figure who knows everyone watching, feels massive responsibility, and is not really allowed to say everything he thinks.

He is "allowed" to say anything he wants, which is one reason the Pet Shop Boys' music is so political for its genre. But like most public figures (and indeed most of the rest of us), he doesn't weigh in with opinions on every subject under the sun. What then inevitably happens is that simpletons mistake not commenting on X as an endorsement of the status quo, but that's unavoidable - to say nothing of unfair.

[markus]

Neil is an extremely self-aware and tightly controlled public figure who knows everyone watching, feels massive responsibility, and is not really allowed to say everything he thinks.

He is "allowed" to say anything he wants, which is one reason the Pet Shop Boys' music is so political for its genre. But like most public figures (and indeed most of the rest of us), he doesn't weigh in with opinions on every subject under the sun. What then inevitably happens is that simpletons mistake not commenting on X as an endorsement of the status quo, but that's unavoidable - to say nothing of unfair.

There’s a total silence where there could be a proper debate about religion and bigotry —like a pink elephant in the room — especially when Putin gets discussed so much. Even It's a sin is more a confessional than religion criticism. Huge taboo area in a world where we supposedly have freedom of speech.

[NotInvisible]

I think you can trace the change in Neil's lyrics for most subjects, including politics.

Agreed. The modern stuff is more varied and more overt.

He's a multimillionaire who thinks that a politician with vaguely left-wing policies like free internet access is the problem.

lol no.

There’s a total silence where there could be a proper debate about religion and bigotry

There's not silence at all when it comes to religion and bigotry, what are you even talking about? We can list dozens of Pet Shop Boys songs that touch on these subjects. Where exactly is the silence in Birthday Boy or Girls Don't Cry? Do you honestly not see any commentary about religion in If Jesus Had a Sister? And what do you think constitutes "proper debate" in a pop song? He's singing from his point of view, as with all artists.

Even It's a sin is more a confessional than religion criticism.

Not remotely. Come on, man. It's hard to tell whether you're arguing in bad faith or just struggling with nuance in a second language.

When I look back upon my life
it’s always with a sense of shame
I’ve always been the one to blame
For everything I long to do
no matter when or where or who
has one thing in common too
It’s a sin

This lyric is criticizing the Church for instilling a sense of shame for being human.

Everything I’ve ever done
Everything I ever do
Every place I’ve ever been
Everywhere I’m going to
It’s a sin

Ditto.

At school they taught me how to be
so pure in thought and word and deed
They didn’t quite succeed

This lyric is criticizing Church dogma as fundamentally incompatible with human nature.

Father forgive me
I tried not to do it
Turned over a new leaf
then tore right through it
Whatever you taught me
I didn’t believe it
Father you fought me
‘cause I didn’t care
and I still don’t understand

And finally we get a verse building on the above, with the Church's inability to accept alternative perspectives and its dogmatic drive to insist on a singular moral perspective.

Or to put it another way, there's a reason the Church was irritated at the time!

Now, is this an academic treatise? Of course not. It's a pop song. But it's staking out a political position on religion. You're not getting that from Kylie.

The Putin apologism on this forum is weird, incidentally.

[markus]

Put any religion ever known on trial in a modern courtroom, and imagine it as a single person holding all those views. That person would be banned from speaking publicly. Yet in our world, it’s the other way around.

In France a girl tried her luck and recieved death threats. Neil must be aware of this.

[NotInvisible]

Put any religion ever known on trial in a modern courtroom, and imagine it as a single person holding all those views. That person would be banned from speaking publicly. Yet in our world, it’s the other way around.

What on Earth are you talking about?

In France a girl tried her luck and recieved death threats. Neil must be aware of this.

Are you trying to claim that Neil should write a song about every incident that ever happens?

[markus]

What are you, a parrot?

[NotInvisible]

What are you, a parrot?

That's one way to avoid answering the question, although it's a weird non sequitur.

[markus]

You're chessboard mind works in a way that you're just rethorically having a different opinion. Just like a typical pointless political debate where neither side is actually intrested in learning from the other.

[NotInvisible]

You're chessboard mind works in a way that you're just rethorically having a different opinion. Just like a typical pointless political debate where neither side is actually intrested in learning from the other.

Well, no. I'm observing that the Pet Shop Boys often write political pop songs. I've provided several examples, none of which you've addressed. In fact you've avoided addressing most points and questions in this thread, which probably shouldn't be surprising since your argument doesn't hold water.