Ronald Regan died today (June 5) @ 93 years of age

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Lush · #61 Post by **Lush** » Thu 10 Jun 2004, 12:31 pm

Deschanel wrote:Oh yeah, all right, Mammon and tax cuts. That's all we're about here.

Some notes as a spectator of the state funeral, from a liberal Dem who's never liked Reagan:

In less poisonously partisan times, Republican Pres. Reagan could have a tipple with staunch Boston-Irish Democrat Tip O'Neill, and toast to old times as gentlemen.

Such bipartisan gentlemanly behavior seems like something of the past already, and it's rather sorry that that's the case.

The definitive motif of what a US state funeral should look like was defined by Jacqueline Kennedy, in 1963, on v short notice.

She sent archivists and historians to find out the details of Abraham Lincoln's funeral; and the world -or perhaps the US at the time-was transfixed at this live television event.

But what strikes me in the gallant imagination of Jacqueline Kennedy, that echoes today in the rituals of Reagan's funeral, is this:

that although we are a new country, we have developed our own sort of state rituals; which in substance almost directly refers to our European heritage and ancestry as a country.

Seeing the impeccable, stoic forms of the young multiracial soldiers perform the postures of hieratic, solemn, symbolic duties was quite special today. (Jackie K understood this importance of symbolism.)

I was also quite struck by the rather amazing scale and other-age beauty of the Capitol building, where Reagan lies in state. The exactly 99 steep steps seemed to rise majestically above the intense heat of a June afternoon, in DC, a city rescued from swamp a a mere 2 centuries ago...

The Capitol dome was supposed to be the target of the jetliner that crashed in Pennsylvania on 9/11. And the only one from that day where the passengers fought the hijackers.

My only point I suppose is that : he was just a guy, but people related.
His politics were formed in the crucible of 1950's anti-Communism, but he and Nancy had many gay friends in Hollywood and beyond.

They were a tolerant and sophisticated couple, who disdained the Bush family for their crudeness and weird scary born-again Christian thing.

To wrap it up. I'm astonished by the outpouring of the media and the people today; but it's been a fascinating snapshot of where we're at today here.

(All the three major networks have carried every minute of Reagan's transit today live, pre-empting all other programming. Just to give people elsewhere an idea of how major the media is treating it here.)

An insightful and balanced post, Deschanel. There haven't been too many of those recently. A very good read.

Lethe · #62 Post by **Lethe** » Thu 10 Jun 2004, 5:45 pm

Deschanel wrote:that although we are a new country, we have developed our own sort of state rituals; which in substance almost directly refers to our European heritage and ancestry as a country.

Seeing the impeccable, stoic forms of the young multiracial soldiers perform the postures of hieratic, solemn, symbolic duties was quite special today. (Jackie K understood this importance of symbolism.)

So now you are as hypocritical and phoney as the Old World.

When are you introducing a monarchy?

#63 Post by **Drico One** » Thu 10 Jun 2004, 6:41 pm

I think some of the recent posts here and some of the US reaction at large shows us just why many decent Americans can tolerate the current Bush regime when many of the rest of us are left scratching our heads incredulously.

Essentially, when usually decent law-abiding people can whip themselves into a lather of frenzied orgasmic delight at the memory of an imbecilic fundamentalist like Reagan, the step to Bush is not that great a leap.

"My fellow Americans, today I have taken steps to outlaw Russia forever. We begin bombing in five minutes."

Alzheimer's can cover up only so much...

Drico.

Zog · #64 Post by **Zog** » Thu 10 Jun 2004, 7:04 pm

"...My only point I suppose is that : he was just a guy, but people related.
His politics were formed in the crucible of 1950's anti-Communism, but he and Nancy had many gay friends in Hollywood and beyond."

Reagan also was responsible for turning in scores of his fellow film-people during the McCarthy era.

-Zog

#65 Post by **Drico One** » Thu 10 Jun 2004, 7:33 pm

...not to mention the deaths of thousands of Latin Americans through his funding of the Contras...

But hey! He had gay friends!!!

Drico.

Native · #66 Post by **Native** » Thu 10 Jun 2004, 8:23 pm

At least somebody's showing some compassion,

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainmen ... 795165.stm

Lethe · #67 Post by **Lethe** » Thu 10 Jun 2004, 9:11 pm

Native wrote:At least somebody's showing some compassion,

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainmen ... 795165.stm

Morrissey has never been a fan of bush.

Luna Noctis · #68 Post by **Luna Noctis** » Thu 10 Jun 2004, 9:21 pm

Native wrote:At least somebody's showing some compassion,

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainmen ... 795165.stm

Naughty naughty , very naughty !

#69 Post by **Drico One** » Thu 10 Jun 2004, 9:29 pm

Well, wishing Bush had died instead of Reagan is a tasteless comment no matter what way you look at it. Why not both?

Drico.

#70 Post by **Drico One** » Thu 10 Jun 2004, 9:33 pm

Perhaps I should add, before the FBI track me down and condemn me to a week with Lyndie England in Abu Ghraib prison, that my last comment was an attempt at humour. I wish I could call it wit, but I'm not that funny.

Drico.

Undertaker · #71 Post by **Undertaker** » Thu 10 Jun 2004, 10:31 pm

Lethe wrote:
Native wrote:At least somebody's showing some compassion,

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainmen ... 795165.stm
Morrissey has never been a fan of bush.

So that's why his missus was in my shop buying sensitive razors

Dave

glennjridge · #72 Post by **glennjridge** » Thu 10 Jun 2004, 10:40 pm

People across the pond wonder and stand amazed at how devoted Americans are to America. and just remember. we are wondering ,and standing amazed at why people in other countrys ARENT devoted to their own countrys. I imagine if there isnt something that is compelling in your own cultures of course you would have disdain for people who are very happy elsewhere.

When I hear negative comments from others in the world,
its like watching a bunch of social outcast loners, complain about the happy and hip incrowd. sure they feel they have a point, but in the end, they just arent happy people, and what unhappy person likes to see someone who really likes and loves their own way of life?

Lethe · #73 Post by **Lethe** » Thu 10 Jun 2004, 11:31 pm

glennjridge wrote:People across the pond wonder and stand amazed at how devoted Americans are to America. and just remember. we are wondering ,and standing amazed at why people in other countrys ARENT devoted to their own countrys. I imagine if there isnt something that is compelling in your own cultures of course you would have disdain for people who are very happy elsewhere.

When I hear negative comments from others in the world,
its like watching a bunch of social outcast loners, complain about the happy and hip incrowd. sure they feel they have a point, but in the end, they just arent happy people, and what unhappy person likes to see someone who really likes and loves their own way of life?

Yes because America never gets involved in other countries, does it?

Good old isolationist America, minding its' own business and burying its' arms dealers.

glennjridge · #74 Post by **glennjridge** » Fri 11 Jun 2004, 12:29 am

Well thats just it Lethe. the USA wouldnt have a pretense to get involved in other countrys, if it werent for the fact the other countrys make is so damn easy by being a mess.and look at the areas we generally tend to get involved in.

Luna Noctis · #75 Post by **Luna Noctis** » Fri 11 Jun 2004, 4:29 am

Glenn , please stop this politically-related moaning !

This supposed to be a thread about Reagan's death , that's it , not about patriotism , America vs Europe or the influence of the Americans on the world ! And I can see this thread slowly ( well , not so slowly anymore ) turning out into another political fight !

Please stop , Glenn !