Pet Shop Boys Community

Death in Venice with swedish Bjorn Andersen, he actually died just last month.

Then there's Alexander Skarsgards new gay themed film Pillon coming out, dealing with the complicated world of gay romances.
Just drawing parallels.

Would this be in a world with no Neil Tennant I wonder?

Drico One wrote: Sun 07 Dec 2025, 2:02 pm Young Offender finds our protagonist from Invisible, two decades earlier, at the start of the slippery slope. It's Very's Death in Venice with added consoles.

Drico.

If there is to be any logic found in the singles choices from Very, which were a disappointment, it's the controversial dark side of everything called "gay" which the world wasn't ready for. Still isn't. Not even Jam & Spoon's version of Young Offender was a single candidate.

markus wrote: Sun 07 Dec 2025, 3:48 pmIf there is to be any logic found in the singles choices from Very, which were a disappointment, it's the controversial dark side of everything called "gay" which the world wasn't ready for. Still isn't. Not even Jam & Spoon's version of Young Offender was a single candidate.

I can't wrap my head around this at all. The era produced six Top 20 singles - half of which went Top 10. It was astonishingly success for a post-imperial phase album, and even with hindsight the first three singles are such obvious choices that I can't believe anyone would argue to the contrary. And they could have replaced Liberation and Yesterday, When I Was Mad with Young Offender and either One In a Million or A Different Point of View or even Shameless for six consecutive bangers.

NotInvisible wrote: Sun 07 Dec 2025, 8:58 pm

markus wrote: Sun 07 Dec 2025, 3:48 pmIf there is to be any logic found in the singles choices from Very, which were a disappointment, it's the controversial dark side of everything called "gay" which the world wasn't ready for. Still isn't. Not even Jam & Spoon's version of Young Offender was a single candidate.

I can't wrap my head around this at all. The era produced six Top 20 singles - half of which went Top 10. It was astonishingly success for a post-imperial phase album, and even with hindsight the first three singles are such obvious choices that I can't believe anyone would argue to the contrary. And they could have replaced Liberation and Yesterday, When I Was Mad with Young Offender and either One In a Million or A Different Point of View or even Shameless for six consecutive bangers.

Dreaming of the queen and The theater were the strongest tracks after the 3 first singles, right? But both containing too much gay darkness Parlophone perhaps thought. Too heavy for Top of the pops and BBC radio. They should have said it's electronic grunge.

I think that with a number 1 album and a number 2 single, the chart position of the third single proves it wasn't the right single.

I'm not talking about musical quality, lyrics, or my personal taste, just cold, hard results. Just with the boost from the success of the hit single and the album, which I remember was number 1 two weeks in a row on the European Album Chart... with all the material you have on Very, if what you release as the third single isn't a Top 10 hit, then in my opinion, you've missed the mark.... Or maybe you chose the wrong video... and the people behind the "Can You Forgive Her" and "Go West" costumes already found this ridiculous, so did they hurt themselves with the video?"

markus wrote: Sun 07 Dec 2025, 2:33 pm Death in Venice with swedish Bjorn Andersen, he actually died just last month.

Björn was only 15 when the film was made.
I guess some people would label the film pedophilia disguised as art.

telys wrote: Mon 08 Dec 2025, 4:17 pm

markus wrote: Sun 07 Dec 2025, 2:33 pm Death in Venice with swedish Bjorn Andersen, he actually died just last month.

Björn was only 15 when the film was made.
I guess some people would label the film pedophilia disguised as art.

It's what people were taught homosexuality was more or less.

markus wrote: Sun 07 Dec 2025, 9:20 pmDreaming of the queen and The theater were the strongest tracks after the 3 first singles, right? But both containing too much gay darkness Parlophone perhaps thought.

What is the "gay darkness" in The Theatre?

In any case, I can't see either of those playing on the radio in 1994. In what reality is The Theatre (a song I adore) a Top 20 hit? Did we really expect Dreaming of the Queen (another song I love) to perform better than Liberation (a song I don't really like, but I can see why it was a single)? Really?

NOBODY75 wrote: Mon 08 Dec 2025, 3:54 pm I think that with a number 1 album and a number 2 single, the chart position of the third single proves it wasn't the right single.

I can't agree with this at all. Post-album singles almost always perform worse, because you already have the album. Which is why Absolutely Fabulous rocketed to #6 between the later singles.

What is the "gay darkness" in The Theatre?

The theatre was a place for actors, workers, and even the audience where there was a sense of allowance and protection from discrimination and shaming. The heteronormative world remained unsuspecting and unaware that the people onstage providing their entertainment were the same ones whose human rights they stepped on as soon as they left the theatre.

Note the anger in Neil's voice delivering the song.

NotInvisible wrote: Mon 08 Dec 2025, 9:00 pm
In any case, I can't see either of those playing on the radio in 1994. In what reality is The Theatre (a song I adore) a Top 20 hit? Did we really expect Dreaming of the Queen (another song I love) to perform better than Liberation (a song I don't really like, but I can see why it was a single)?

I can't agree with this at all. Post-album singles almost always perform worse, because you already have the album. Which is why Absolutely Fabulous rocketed to #6 between the later singles.

I think this shows just how strong Very was - so many of the tracks could have been singles but I agree that they were now at the point where third or fourth singles were going top twenty, rather than top ten.

NotInvisible wrote: Mon 08 Dec 2025, 9:00 pm

markus wrote: Sun 07 Dec 2025, 9:20 pmDreaming of the queen and The theater were the strongest tracks after the 3 first singles, right? But both containing too much gay darkness Parlophone perhaps thought.

What is the "gay darkness" in The Theatre?

In any case, I can't see either of those playing on the radio in 1994. In what reality is The Theatre (a song I adore) a Top 20 hit? Did we really expect Dreaming of the Queen (another song I love) to perform better than Liberation (a song I don't really like, but I can see why it was a single)? Really?

NOBODY75 wrote: Mon 08 Dec 2025, 3:54 pm I think that with a number 1 album and a number 2 single, the chart position of the third single proves it wasn't the right single.

I can't agree with this at all. Post-album singles almost always perform worse, because you already have the album. Which is why Absolutely Fabulous rocketed to #6 between the later singles.

You might be right, Notinvisible. Perhaps whatever song they released would have had the same result because the same number of people, the same fans, would have bought it. It's true that the third single always performs worse because the album has already been released. But I've always believed that with the success they had at that time, if they released "A Different Point of View," they could have reached the Top 8, 9, or 10... Never a huge Top 5 hit or close to it, but definitely that position. We'll never know, and it doesn't really matter.

I'd rather have well made high-budget videos for dreaming and theater to watch now instead of the two birds with pointy hats and the Holly Johnson tribute.

markus wrote: Mon 08 Dec 2025, 9:42 pm What is the "gay darkness" in The Theatre?

The theatre was a place for actors, workers, and even the audience where there was a sense of allowance and protection from discrimination and shaming. The heteronormative world remained unsuspecting and unaware that the people onstage providing their entertainment were the same ones whose human rights they stepped on as soon as they left the theatre.

Note the anger in Neil's voice delivering the song.

Well, that's certainly a take. But the anger in Neil's voice has nothing to do with "gay darkness" and everything to do with the song's actual subject matter, which is the young homeless being ignored by London's upper class.

NotInvisible wrote: Tue 09 Dec 2025, 5:11 am

markus wrote: Mon 08 Dec 2025, 9:42 pm What is the "gay darkness" in The Theatre?

The theatre was a place for actors, workers, and even the audience where there was a sense of allowance and protection from discrimination and shaming. The heteronormative world remained unsuspecting and unaware that the people onstage providing their entertainment were the same ones whose human rights they stepped on as soon as they left the theatre.

Note the anger in Neil's voice delivering the song.

Well, that's certainly a take. But the anger in Neil's voice has nothing to do with "gay darkness" and everything to do with the song's actual subject matter, which is the young homeless being ignored by London's upper class.

Neil's got a soft spot for the homeless? Good to know...

markus wrote: Tue 09 Dec 2025, 8:28 am

NotInvisible wrote: Tue 09 Dec 2025, 5:11 am

markus wrote: Mon 08 Dec 2025, 9:42 pm What is the "gay darkness" in The Theatre?

The theatre was a place for actors, workers, and even the audience where there was a sense of allowance and protection from discrimination and shaming. The heteronormative world remained unsuspecting and unaware that the people onstage providing their entertainment were the same ones whose human rights they stepped on as soon as they left the theatre.

Note the anger in Neil's voice delivering the song.

Well, that's certainly a take. But the anger in Neil's voice has nothing to do with "gay darkness" and everything to do with the song's actual subject matter, which is the young homeless being ignored by London's upper class.

Neil's got a soft spot for the homeless? Good to know...

You can find that soft spot in You Know Where You Went Wrong:
Two men on the street
drinking something cheap
No home, no family
It’s cold, nowhere to sleep
Passers-by never catch their eye anywhere
One man drinks, the other swears

In I Get Excited:
We're both in the gutter but we're looking at the stars

To Step Aside
I look from my window down to the square
At workers still queueing patiently there
For market forces to provide
What history so far denied


Although I like the idea of Very as a "gay darkness"-concept album, to ascribe it to The Theatre would be too far fetched.