Pet Shop Boys Community

ID cards evil?

love songs to a terrorist?

bush and blair are stupid for taking action?

personally. i lean left, but im not 100% sure psb's views are always pragmatic

I agree with those views, yes. Particularly with regards to authoritarianism, exemplified by ID cards in Integral.

but are id cards really authoritarianism?

should we just sack the police and run wild naked

jasonjohn wrote:bush and blair are stupid for taking action?

I posted my moral dilemma regarding their action in the off-topic forum:
viewtopic.php?p=243550

jasonjohn wrote:but are id cards really authoritarianism?

should we just sack the police and run wild naked

No, try to find a balance first before control starts to grow radically.

having an identity and the expectation of being honest isn't radical

I think PSB are overreacting in Integral. In the Netherlands we're nowadays obliged to carry an ID with you, wherever you go. My life really didn't change. It only helps the police to indentify people faster, when necessary.

And although I'm not a fan of war and violence, I think it was good that something was done in Iraq. The motive or reason may be wrong, it was still good that Saddam was removed from power. Under his regime more people died than we learned about.

And I don't find Fugitive very controversial, to be honest. It's a great track, with lyrics that deal with the terrorism issue from a different perspective.

jasonjohn wrote:ID cards evil?

love songs to a terrorist?

bush and blair are stupid for taking action?

personally. i lean left, but im not 100% sure psb's views are always pragmatic

Totally agree with their views.

ID cards infringe on one's civil liberties. And I'm sorry but as to ID cards actually stopping terrorism and/or illegal immigrants is poppycock.

Fugitive is *not* a love song to a terrorist.

Bush and Blair are indeed stupid. Actually Blair might be even more stupid as he is Bush's puppy after all. Wags his tail when asked to and all.

jasonjohn wrote:having an identity and the expectation of being honest isn't radical

It isn't, but I reacted more to your other sentence. Whenever you change rules that were the same for ages, you never know when and what happens next. I mean, is everyone sure this isn't like opening Pandora's box of anti-freedom policies? And secondly, is ID the best what can be done today against crime & terrorism?

Tomas wrote:And secondly, is ID the best what can be done today against crime & terrorism?

This is the main point for me.

We are told that ID cards will help in the "fight against terrorism" but I haven't seen a single terrorist act that would have been prevented by ID cards.

Our government is using the political situation as an excuse to relieve the citizens of more of our civil liberties. Funny, I thought now that Labour is no longer a socialist party, that they wouldn't display such authoritarianism in power - how wrong can one be!

stats-freak wrote:In the Netherlands we're nowadays obliged to carry an ID with you, wherever you go. My life really didn't change. It only helps the police to indentify people faster, when necessary.

1. ID Cards are evil?
Overseas ID cards are not comparable

Many western countries that have ID cards do not have a shared register. Mostly ID cards have been limited in use, with strong legal privacy protections. In Germany centralisation is forbidden for historical reasons, and when cards are replaced, the records are not linked. Belgium has made use of modern encryption methods and local storage to protect privacy and prevent data-sharing, an approach opposite to the Home Office's. The UK scheme is closest to those of some Middle Eastern countries and of the People's Republic of China—though the latter has largely given up on biometrics.

I don't agree with the sort of ID Cards we'll be getting because the arguement for them is they'll help stop terrorism. How? They're just a complete waste of money and civil rights. As for being stopped by the police when I'm out and being asked to show my ID Card, I don't have a problem with that. In fact, if we got the same cards as other countries, I wouldn't have a problem with them.

2. Love songs to terrorists?
It's been said already, Fugitive is not a love song for terrorists. I think it's quite a sad song really.

3. Bush and Blair are stupid for taking action?
No. I agreed with the war on Iraq because of the WMDs and also becasue of Saddam. There might not have been any WMDs found but Saddam was. I don't agree with the mess that's been caused and our troops still being there.
Also, I don't think George Bush is stupid! He's the leader of one of the most powerful countries in the world, how stupid can he be? Then again, that said country does have Arnold Schwarzenegger as a governor

stats-freak wrote:In the Netherlands we're nowadays obliged to carry an ID with you, wherever you go. My life really didn't change. It only helps the police to indentify people faster, when necessary.

And when are you obliged to show your ID to police?

Here, there's a bad habit that they may say "you match a description of a wanted person" and you have to show your ID then - it's a bit unbelievable that a standard street policeman would know that someone like you is wanted.

I started my life liberal and have slowly moved to the extreme right. (well, towards the right, anyway ) I think in practise I'm live and let live if there's no adverse effect on other people. I am not particularly for, but definately not against ID cards. After all, if youve done nothing wrong then youve got nothing to fear.

they seem like the perfect ying/yang duo.
they dont agree alot of times,one believes one thing and the other believes another.

they say thats what makes people stay interested to one another rather than always agreeing on everything.

Tomas wrote:And when are you obliged to show your ID to police?

I never had to show my ID so far.