Pet Shop Boys Community

Suicide is often seen as a permanent solution to a temporary problem. But what if someone has had chronic problems? What if it's gone 10, 20, 30 years, with no solution, living out the same shit over and over? What if there isn't an answer for them? What if there isn't just some event in the present that is setting them off, but a life of chronic mental issues they can't overcome? What if they've tried dozens or hundreds of pills, tried various religions, tried every single thing they could think of, tried to stay openminded, but found that nothing worked for them. Is there a time when society should say, yes, perhaps letting go is ok for you? Or should we send them to the doctor for another round of Zoloft which they've been on many times before?

It's all about perspective. Is the person a starving child ravaged by disease, malnourished and orphaned because her parents died of Aids?

Or is the person living in the civilised world where things aren't always appreciated?

People who commit suicide often think they are making it easier for others.
But suicide is devastating to family and friends. They never really get over it.

From someone who has come pretty close to doing it twice, both at periods in life where I didnt think there was any way up, I would have destroyed my family and torn them apart.

I was stopped from doing it by seeing an image of my neice, then just a year old, and by a phone call. On the second occasion my now ex-wife had actually thought Id done it as all the lights were off and there was no sign of life (sorry). She kept the kids in the car while she searched, then called me (not the same phone call). I was across the road in a right mess.

I was being a selfish t***, and looking back now, there is always light at the end of the tunnel. It might be a long tunnel and shit bulb but there is.

I would have absolutely destroyed my kids.

Thankfully in a better place now!!

I see two arguments for selfishness, and one for civilization.

As for the selfishness, what if there is no or minimal family left for this person? Or, what if there is family, but they recognize that the problems are chronic as well? That the person has struggled for decades at getting better and hasn't? One Of The Crowd, it sounds like you had some bad periods, but that they only lasted so long. I'm talking about chronic mental or physical conditions. It's interesting to me, in America at least, where individualism reigns king, that the family is often cited as a reason for not killing yourself. I'm not saying this is wrong, but I think in chronic cases, perhaps it needs rethinking.

As for "civilization", I don't think that has anything to do with anything. So we have phones, clean water, the internet, and bon bons, so that means we should automatically never hit a point of chronic problems? Or has the plurality of life-worlds, the chopping up of reality, actually caused MORE problems then in third world areas where, while perhaps diseases still kill that don't kill in the first world, humans there have better "identity" health. For example, the middle ages, we can agree, were not the most sanitary time, but people knew who they were. A serf may have had little freedom, but they were not confused about the situation. But with the plurality of different religions, opinions, etc today, anomie is ever more possible.

You haven't mentioned the obvious case of degenerative mental illness where the person's personality will gradually disappear leaving just the body with the mind gone. I believe this is one of the strongest cases for allowing someone to end their life early while still in a fit state to make the choice, as it may actually save their family from what can be several years of suffering and allow them to move on with their lives.

one of the bravest people I can think of is that stephen hawking dude in the wheel chair with the robot voice.
to be a prisoner unable to move in your own body...the feeling of helplessness and claustrophobia it must bring with that. to essencially be just a conciousness without a body.

I'm a pretty upbeat guy but I'd roll my ass into the nearest swimming pool.

Hmmm... As long as I was being adequately cared for I don't think I'd be suicidal in those circumstances. I wouldn't want to be in that condition of course but with my mind in tact and a means of communication available I think I'd carry on.

There is not much point asking as most people will not want to endorse
suicide, without knowing if some one will act on that advice.

It's a good thing to be familiar with the symptoms of Depression and other
mental illness. People may say life is good but deep down be fed up with
the way life has turned out for them. Shortness of temper when others may
laugh and a few other signs may indicate Depression. Depression can be
well treated with medication. Seek help if you think this may be you.

I've been very depressed for a couple of years and the one thing that keeps me going is not giving others satisfaction. I think someone who commits suicide is probably completely destroyed, I doubt it is that often the easy option, (I did try when I was a teenager thankfully my bodies survival instincts took over)
Someone I am aware of, I have been informed, apparently tried to commit 'suicide' in the middle of a forest, by 'coincidence' a police patrol came upon him deep in the woods. He phoned up a woman forty ish years younger than him and did the 'oh woe is me' act, to get attention. Unfortunately t**** like him degrade suicidal feelings in the view of many

the person I am aware of by the way isn't anyone related to this forum or PSB just to be clear, just a very pathetic man who gets pleasure out of attempting to bully others

Flaffer wrote:
degrade suicidal feelings in the view of many

Are you trying to suggest that suicide should be viewed more positively? I appreciate you mean that some use the prospect of it to manipulate and control but I'm not comfortable with the idea of a righteous suicide.

I'm not suggesting a righteous suicide, but I believe that some may undertake such an action, even whilst aware of the consequences on others and they cannot help it and are driven to such actions. I think those who who use the threat of it to try and manipulate others are despicable. It Is like the way 'depression' is used by loads of people to get time off work, and it is utter bullshit, what it it does to denigrate those who genuinely suffer from depression and for whom it is an illness. I could go to the doctor and get signed off for quite a while if I was to go on about how depressed I was but it would be an insult to those who are crippled by the affliction

I agree 100 percent with Flaffer. Suicide is not just an individual event, it exists in the social world and it's "stock", it's "currency" is deflated by those who abuse the term and act. It becomes a Catch-22, you are damned if you live and you're damned (not in the hell sense, but in the social sense) if you die.

Don't agree with either of you. You both seem to think that suicide should be classed as a noble act if done correctly.