Pet Shop Boys Community

What do u think ! made up or real

I guess its common knowledge that POWs often treated like dogs, but as disturbing as these photos are, I cant help thinking that some have been digitally enhanced

----

The American military has formally remanded six soldiers for abusing prisoners in an Iraqi prison. Allegations include torture and rape.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/05/ ... index.html

Why people are surprised this could happen is beyond me. After all, if you use cluster bombs to wipe out children, what difference does a bit of torture and rape make?

Drico.

Justice
Human Rights
Democracy
Freedom

Where are they?

It seems like the American photos were real. The question is over the authenticity of the British ones. I'm not saying that British soldiers aren't capable of such a thing, but the photos don't have the smack of authenticity that the American ones do, even setting aside the points dVTB raised about equipment in them that isn't even being used in Iraq...

----

It's very easy to allow yourself to do sick things when you believe you've got the moral right to do so or that you won't get punished. That's why I don't believe in "having moral rights" to do something, in preemptive strikes and in God Almighty I guess some of these soldiers believe they are granted power over Iraqis' lives and deaths, so what difference a little rape makes?

Gosh, I love soldiers, the whole notion of war and army and Dubya so much. *throws up accidentally* Oops.

war is a place where all morals quickly vanish.
If you look at the situation the soldiers are in at the moment, it's pretty easy to imagine they lose all capability for fairness, reason, morality and ethical treatment of POWs. They have no certainties, friends keep dying, they don't know when they'll be allowed home, if they're going to live, they probably don't even know what they're still fighting for.

I think a lot of soldiers who survive will suffer from Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome, just like after Vietnam (there was less PTSS after WWI en II because the cause of the war was clearer, easier to justify)...

Of course, all that doesn't excuse these kinds of things from happening. I'm just saying I'm not at all surprised these things happen. So I wouldn't be surprised if the photos are real, or -if they're not real- that these things happen anyway.
I just don't know how you can make sure they don't happen anymore.

My grandad was POW in Germany during WWII. He never ever spoke of what happened to him during those four months. Never. I can only guess it wasn't exactly cheerful.

Where are American people?
Where are French people?
Where are Europeans?
Where are Civil organizations?
Where is UN?

If an illegal event happens about Human Rights in Turkey, All people/leaders / Civil organizations cricitize Turkey.Media attacks Turkey and Turkish justice/police..

I ask one question.Where are they? Is Usa or England a good model for us about human-rights and democracy...?

I laugh with my assss!

Galata_Turco wrote:Where are American people?
Where are French people?
Where are Europeans?
Where are Civil organizations?
Where is UN?

If an illegal event happens about Human Rights in Turkey, All people/leaders / Civil organizations cricitize Turkey.Media attacks Turkey and Turkish justice/police..

I ask one question.Where are they? Is Usa or England a good model for us about human-rights and democracy...?

I laugh with my assss!

Erm sweetie, I think you "laugh your arse off" However, laughing with your ass is very poetic
As usual, the world is silent.

The Mirror news group stand by the authenticity of those Photos.
Meanwhile there are loads of 'experts' pointing out items of clothing, military weapons and even the internal parts of the vehicle that do not FIT the Government Issue to British Troops in Iraq.

The Lancashire Barracks are being pin pointed as the 'bully-boy' unit that instigated these War crimes.

No matter if the photos are Real or Fake, the damage is done!


Piglet wrote:

I think a lot of soldiers who survive will suffer from Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome, just like after Vietnam (there was less PTSS after WWI en II because the cause of the war was clearer, easier to justify)...

and:

My grandad was POW in Germany during WWII. He never ever spoke of what happened to him during those four months. Never. I can only guess it wasn't exactly cheerful.

PTSS was suffered by soldiers from both WW1 and II ---- It is basically that it had no LABEL back then. Few trauma care units were available, and once a soldier was deemed 'fit' he either went back into action or put into a 'lighter' job.
My own grandfather (maternal side) was a POW in WW1 - he NEVER EVER talked of his experiences, it was almost that he 'blocked out' the entire war years.
My paternal grandfather fought as a Fusilier in France - he was not taken prisoner. He told many a jolly tale of his war experiences. The trenches friendships, the games they invented to pass dreary hours! As a child, I thought War had a sort of 'fairytale' happy ending feel about it!
My own father was in WW2, he was not a POW, but was in a Tank in Africa. A Signalman was his 'job' - the tank came under heavy fire and blew up! My dad never talked of his years in the war, only ever of things that came after the war had ended.
To my knowledge Neither Dad nor maternal grandad ever received any form of trauma assistance.
Back then one did not talk of such a weakness -- especially if one was a MALE!

NO war is 'nice' --not for those who are the subject target or those who are enlisted to fight for their country or for world peace!
Todays difference is : How fast the action can be shown around the world! By TV or on some web site web-cam.
I suppose that with the aid of I.T. and all it has to offer, there are many ways to Fake images and have them appear to be TRUE and FACT.
WW1 &2 had only radio coverage and newsprint -- and news was days old before it appeared or got heard. Now things appear 'as it happens' or on a time - delay, beneficial in many respects --- but harmful in so many more ways!
My question is : If these Photos turn out to be fake, then by WHO and for what gain have they been faked ?

Has the removal of Saddam had any real effect? --- Is Iraq anywhere near being a freed country?
What would happen if all non Iraq persons were pulled out of that country right now?
I sure as hell don't know the answer, I dont think 'the powers that be' know any better either!

I think those photos are real. I can easily believe that the armed forces will torture the enemy. There should really be a separate division that looks after war prisoners.

True or not, you have to think about the American soldiers burnt to death and being hung by Iraqi's. Nothing was done then, so why should anything be done about Americans torturing Iraqis?

technotrancemix wrote:True or not, you have to think about the American soldiers burnt to death and being hung by Iraqi's. Nothing was done then, so why should anything be done about Americans torturing Iraqis?

Why are American soldiers in Iraq? Why did they come to iraq from other side of ocean??? For iraqis???? Or Patrol???

technotrancemix wrote:True or not, you have to think about the American soldiers burnt to death and being hung by Iraqi's. Nothing was done then, so why should anything be done about Americans torturing Iraqis?

Erm, because Americans are supposedly civilized, liberators, and guardians of human rights?

That's the story they try to sell us, so the least they can do is live up to it.

Drico.