official ??

Message

srpsb · #1 Post by **srpsb** » Wed 31 Aug 2005, 9:59 pm

http://cgi.befr.ebay.be/Pet-Shop-Boys-S ... dZViewItem

Zeus On The Loose · Wed 31 Aug 2005, 10:02 pm

No. This is not the official CD-R.

DJAMIX · #3 Post by **DJAMIX** » Wed 31 Aug 2005, 10:08 pm

...and the seller had the guts to place a transparent paper on the CDR...

Don't buy it. Go to E-mule...

srpsb · #4 Post by **srpsb** » Wed 31 Aug 2005, 10:16 pm

thank you

andmaste · #5 Post by **andmaste** » Thu 01 Sep 2005, 1:34 pm

Actually, I think it can be original, even if it's Maxwell.
In 1997 I was in deep contact with Mike Fiorenza.
Rage, the UK on-line record seller, told me they had this item, but it was too expensive for me. So I asked Mike if he was interested in it. He was, he bought it, and he gave me (it was 1997) this little pic:

If you look close, they are the same item.
Mike told me he was sure it was original, he had sources very close to PSB, and they confirmed it.

So I can assume it is real.
I have this pic since 1997.

Andrea

Zeus On The Loose · Thu 01 Sep 2005, 1:59 pm

Andrea, the original CD-R of this was originally available from (I think now defunct) collectors shop/mail order called Moon's that used to advertise on Record Collector. I saw the item (and SAVE CD-R with Betrayed instrumental) while I was in the UK for the Savoy shows but didn't buy it. Lee from Rage then bought it, according to the Moon's bloke (I think his name was Andy) as was the IDOSAC 'no message' CD-R. Problem is, a lot of SNF's and IDOSAC's were later sold by Rage. I was offered them many times and I know the bloke who used to run Confidence mail order (also a big PSB collector) had bought an IDOSAC from Rage and was sure it wasn't an official copy.

The original CD-R had hand-written labels, not a sticker. I don't know exactly how Fiorenza could have identified the particular CD-R as original either, contacts or no contacts, the most he could have got confirmation for was that a SNF remix had been commisioned and done by Love To Infinity.

Joemoz · #7 Post by **Joemoz** » Thu 01 Sep 2005, 2:08 pm

Who in their right mind would pay the obscene amounts required for these items if they weren't reasonably sure they were authentic? After all, it's just a CD-R...Anyone could have made it, in principle (at least the owner could have made a copy), so it would be natural to ask for some kind of proof.

Zeus On The Loose · Thu 01 Sep 2005, 2:12 pm

Joemoz wrote:Who in their right mind would pay the obscene amounts required for these items if they weren't reasonably sure they were authentic? After all, it's just a CD-R...Anyone could have made it, in principle (at least the owner could have made a copy), so it would be natural to ask for some kind of proof.

People of principle who prefer to own the original recording of it, rather than an illegal mp3 have to buy this, obviously.

DJAMIX · #9 Post by **DJAMIX** » Thu 01 Sep 2005, 2:12 pm

Andrea,

What you said made me wonder... And I was asking myself: "what exactly do official / genuine mean?"

So, if someone inside the studio where Pet Shop Boys recorded those tracks, burn a generic CD-R and place a stick on it, that CD-R will be a genuine collector item(!!!)

Or if the same guy or people inside that studio burn several copies and than give to their friends, all the CDs will be genuine (!!!)

On the other hand if I burn the same tracks at home and place a stick (better than that), CD-R will be a fake (!!!)

So that's where I strongly disagree with such concepts of original, genuine and fake. Therefore I could never evaluate that kind of item as worthy to cost so much.

andmaste · #10 Post by **andmaste** » Thu 01 Sep 2005, 2:33 pm

DJAMIX wrote:Andrea,

What you said made me wonder... And I was asking myself: "what exactly do official / genuine mean?"

So, if someone inside the studio where Pet Shop Boys recorded those tracks, burn a generic CD-R and place a stick on it, that CD-R will be a genuine collector item(!!!)

Or if the same guy or people inside that studio burn several copies and than give to their friends, all the CDs will be genuine (!!!)

On the other hand if I burn the same tracks at home and place a stick (better than that), CD-R will be a fake (!!!)

So that's where I strongly disagree with such concepts of original, genuine and fake. Therefore I could never evaluate that kind of item as worthy to cost so much.

I agree about the price. I'd never buy it for a high price.
But the fact that the 2 pics are the same...

@zeus: at that time, nobody (of us) knew the "number" printed on the CD label, and Mike, once he read that number on the CD he bought, called in UK for having a proof (he didn't call rage, obviously). When he had confirm about the number (and about generic features of the item) he was sure about the genuinity of the item.

Obviously, If I buy a fake for 500 UKP, I will NEVER admit it, and I will always say it's NOT a fake.

Andrea

Joemoz · #11 Post by **Joemoz** » Thu 01 Sep 2005, 2:42 pm

Zeus On The Loose wrote:
Joemoz wrote:Who in their right mind would pay the obscene amounts required for these items if they weren't reasonably sure they were authentic? After all, it's just a CD-R...Anyone could have made it, in principle (at least the owner could have made a copy), so it would be natural to ask for some kind of proof.
People of principle who prefer to own the original recording of it, rather than an illegal mp3 have to buy this, obviously.

I think you misunderstood my post, or didn't bother to read it. I wasn't asking why anyone would buy it, but why they would buy it if they weren't sure it was real. Paying 500UKP for something which may as well be fake is daft IMO.

And for your information, I own many rare PSB items with content that others freely download from the Internet. Not that I complain about that though.

I doubt, however, that I personally would pay 500UKP for a CD-R of a remix, whether it was authentic or not. Especially an item as unremarkable as this one. But each to their own.

Another thing is that I would hardly call this a "legal" copy, as it is certainly not an official release intended for regular music buyers.

Zeus On The Loose · Thu 01 Sep 2005, 3:46 pm

andmaste wrote:
DJAMIX wrote:Andrea,

What you said made me wonder... And I was asking myself: "what exactly do official / genuine mean?"

So, if someone inside the studio where Pet Shop Boys recorded those tracks, burn a generic CD-R and place a stick on it, that CD-R will be a genuine collector item(!!!)

Or if the same guy or people inside that studio burn several copies and than give to their friends, all the CDs will be genuine (!!!)

On the other hand if I burn the same tracks at home and place a stick (better than that), CD-R will be a fake (!!!)

So that's where I strongly disagree with such concepts of original, genuine and fake. Therefore I could never evaluate that kind of item as worthy to cost so much.
I agree about the price. I'd never buy it for a high price.
But the fact that the 2 pics are the same...

@zeus: at that time, nobody (of us) knew the "number" printed on the CD label, and Mike, once he read that number on the CD he bought, called in UK for having a proof (he didn't call rage, obviously). When he had confirm about the number (and about generic features of the item) he was sure about the genuinity of the item.

Obviously, If I buy a fake for 500 UKP, I will NEVER admit it, and I will always say it's NOT a fake.

Andrea

Fiorenza was always full of bollocks. I doubt anyone could have confirmed him the matrix # of a random CD-R they once used in a studio to master the remix! He just claimed it was real which eventually proved to be a very efficient way of re-selling it...

Zeus On The Loose · Thu 01 Sep 2005, 3:48 pm

Joemoz wrote:
Zeus On The Loose wrote:
Joemoz wrote:Who in their right mind would pay the obscene amounts required for these items if they weren't reasonably sure they were authentic? After all, it's just a CD-R...Anyone could have made it, in principle (at least the owner could have made a copy), so it would be natural to ask for some kind of proof.
People of principle who prefer to own the original recording of it, rather than an illegal mp3 have to buy this, obviously.
I think you misunderstood my post, or didn't bother to read it. I wasn't asking why anyone would buy it, but why they would buy it if they weren't sure it was real. Paying 500UKP for something which may as well be fake is daft IMO.

And for your information, I own many rare PSB items with content that others freely download from the Internet. Not that I complain about that though.

I doubt, however, that I personally would pay 500UKP for a CD-R of a remix, whether it was authentic or not. Especially an item as unremarkable as this one. But each to their own.

Another thing is that I would hardly call this a "legal" copy, as it is certainly not an official release intended for regular music buyers.

Erm, no, you misunderstood my post or didn't bother to read it as I was clearly teasing you. Come on luv, you may have lost that argument and never bothered to reply to that sympathy card thing, when noone in the board really backed you up on the debate but you don't have to be so bitter. I still quite like you regardless.

TheGardner · #14 Post by **TheGardner** » Thu 01 Sep 2005, 4:42 pm

let's say it this way:

it's the original CD-R Mike once bought from the Rage Music Mailer shop!
It's only a factory CD-R and because of that some people call it official

Joemoz · #15 Post by **Joemoz** » Thu 01 Sep 2005, 4:58 pm

Zeus On The Loose wrote:
Joemoz wrote:
Zeus On The Loose wrote: People of principle who prefer to own the original recording of it, rather than an illegal mp3 have to buy this, obviously.
I think you misunderstood my post, or didn't bother to read it. I wasn't asking why anyone would buy it, but why they would buy it if they weren't sure it was real. Paying 500UKP for something which may as well be fake is daft IMO.

And for your information, I own many rare PSB items with content that others freely download from the Internet. Not that I complain about that though.

I doubt, however, that I personally would pay 500UKP for a CD-R of a remix, whether it was authentic or not. Especially an item as unremarkable as this one. But each to their own.

Another thing is that I would hardly call this a "legal" copy, as it is certainly not an official release intended for regular music buyers.
Erm, no, you misunderstood my post or didn't bother to read it as I was clearly teasing you. Come on luv, you may have lost that argument and never bothered to reply to that sympathy card thing, when noone in the board really backed you up on the debate but you don't have to be so bitter. I still quite like you regardless.

Yeah whatever

. There wasn't much point in continuing a debate where I had already made my points and felt quite certain you would always insist on having the last word. I've stopped expecting forum members to agree with me - in a case like this where I am so clearly in the right it doesn't really matter