Why the boys will always fail...

[robbie'o']

Following on from everyone's absolute dismay at the chart placing of minimal I thought I'd offer my 2 pennies worth of why they are no longer as popular as they once were. To be honest I think the major problem is that they are too clever for the chart buying public in general, and a seemingly lacklustre support from EMI does not help as well. In the 80's the record buying public were, as a whole, better educated in what they were hearing on the tv, radio etc and subsequently had more considered purchases, and the boys being superb pop for the era with a slightly futuristic edge garnered them massive sales and success. Then they released 'Domino Dancing' and the decline started to happen, because, let's be honest, this should have easily been a number one record, but wasn't, mainly because, in my view it was too ahead of it's time (I don't for a second believe that the video had any negative points as far as the UK was concerned). They may have scored a big success with Go West but, as we all know, it's a bit of a football terrace anthem and thus the general public would buy something like this, a bit of a no-brainer. When they did Closer to Heaven it was also a massive step for both the music industry and the theatre going public, to have a so-called synth duo produce a musical about gay men and drugs, not really Andrew Lloyd Webber is it? So this was, and probably still is, ahead of it's time. 2002's Release album was a massive change for them and to have the UK's top pop duo release such an album was always doomed to fail (take Erasure for example who have had even bigger sales drops over the years, when they released their accoustic 'country' album it totally bombed (and being a bit dire didn't help lol). Battleship Potemkin also bombed, putting a completely new and superb soundtrack to a film 80+ years old, a case of looking back to look forward. Fundamental continues the trend somewhat, a group that started in the 80's still making relevent music 20+ years later, but too political for the buying massive with songs about world leaders, id cards, asylum seekers etc. If it was a fair world everyone would be educated enough to buy 'clever' pop but they don't, they want something instantly disposable that they don't have to think about. Gone are the days of songs that defined a period in your life, and gone from the mainstream music field are intelligent pop groups, those that survive do so from us fans, and us fans alone. The general public aren't, in my opinion, interested in searching out good music, they would rather be bombarded with types like James Blunt etc. I'm sorry if I sound elitist but I do honestly think this is the case. Sorry to waffle but wanted to get my views across...let the back-lash begin

[bookshopboy]

not really Andrew Lloyd Webber is it?

It was Andrew Lloyd Webber's Really Useful Group that put Closer To Heaven on the stage...

[kimphilby]

The general public aren't, in my opinion, interested in searching out good music

But there's more good new music being heard and bought through a more accessible and varied media than for a very long time.

PSB aren't as successful as they were because they are two middle-aged, not particularly sexually alluring gay men who have been doing pretty much the same thing for 20+ years.
Bands like Rolling Stones still get away with it to a degree but they are legends, they have rock n' roll connotations which remain perenially cool, but then in all honesty their new release albums don't sell that well either (not in the Uk anyway). Its all about the world tours with those guys.

PSB aren't failing, particularly not with Fundamental, beacause the playing field has changed for them. You make the point about Domino Dancing being the start of the decline, well that was 18! (count 'em) years ago. So they were only ever really successful from late 1985 to autumn 1988. They've been doomed to "fail" ever since then, by your reckoning.

[Seriously30]

I have to take issue with you saying that Battleship Potemkin 'bombed'!

What did you expect it to do? Sell millions of copies? Its an art house film and not a big commercial project.

Where the boys succeeded was in spreading their musical wings AND bringing a new audience to a film that they wouldn't normally see.

[daveid]

I agree with the essence of what the initial poster is saying. The fact that he has to 'apologise' for sounding elitest / elitist [happens to the best of us!] indicates how those of thoughtful opinion and intelligence are a persecuted minority these days.The pop music-listening public are now dumb and numb. Yes, most are teenagers, but have teenagers ever in the past been so thick while appearing superficially sophisticated? If James "Chris de Burgh" Blunt brought out a 50-minute album of his greatest bowel eruptions they'd flock to buy it if they were told it was cool. Am I being unfair..?

[kimphilby]

I have to take issue with you saying that Battleship Potemkin 'bombed'!

What did you expect it to do? Sell millions of copies? Its an art house film and not a big commercial project.

Where the boys succeeded was in spreading their musical wings AND bringing a new audience to a film that they wouldn't normally see.

Hello! And it wasn't a PSB release anyway.

[weirdalfan1980]

get the flame thrower ready for a flame war.

[bookshopboy]

I have to take issue with you saying that Battleship Potemkin 'bombed'!

What did you expect it to do? Sell millions of copies? Its an art house film and not a big commercial project.

Where the boys succeeded was in spreading their musical wings AND bringing a new audience to a film that they wouldn't normally see.

Hello! And it wasn't a PSB release anyway.

Hello! It was a Pet Shop Boys release.

And it was a success in that Trafalgar Square was packed when they performed it for the first time.

[gareth]

not really Andrew Lloyd Webber is it?

It was Andrew Lloyd Webber's Really Useful Group that put Closer To Heaven on the stage...

A very fair point - beat me to it!

Some interesting points there but I think we should be wary of raising this discussion to a intellectual level that it doesn't really deserve!

I would argue that Battleship didn't flop at all - the live shows have been and continue to be, a great success. Did PSB, or the record company for that matter, really think the album would storm the charts? Of course they didn't, but they are now at a stage in their careers where they can do something like Battleship and the record company is happy to release the album. I'd have been more worried if it hadn't seen the light of day as an official release.

At the end of the day the public buy the music they are exposed to via the media. As we have debated endlessly here Pet Shop Boys quite simply do not fit with much of the commercial landscape anymore - so very few people get to hear their music in comparison to the likes of James Blunt. People aren't stupid (generally speaking) - they'll only go and spend their hard earned cash on something they like or have grown to like via a process of repetition.

I for one have no illusions as to the likelihood of PSB ever scoring another huge chart success and to be honest I don't really care - we're lucky that a/ they are still going b/ we can still (usually!) rely on being able to find their music the day it comes out as they are with a major label.

Finally, and lets be honest here, just because we all like Minimal, it doesn't mean the UK music buying public will. As someone said here recently, we are the hardcore fanbase and therefore somewhat biased!

Cheers

G

[One of the crowd]

Out of interest does anyone know where Paul McCartney's classical albums charted at?

[kimphilby]

Hello! It was a Pet Shop Boys release.

It's a "Tennant/ Lowe" release.

And as both Bookshop and Gareth have pointed out it was, and continues to be, a big success as a performed piece. As it was meant to be.

[Rent]

I do think they are too clever for their own good. That has always been my theory anyway. You don’t sound elitist but rather clueless when you consider all their achievements (both in terms of longevity and being able to chart) as “failing”. And BP “bombed”?!

How many bands are still around 20+ years later, still charting (is that failing??), still writing (mainly with talent!) and producing for themselves and others, still respected and what was it again “critically acclaimed”, oh and STILL drawing nutters at gigs. I don’t think many people would see that as “failing” actually.

So maybe you ought to consider looking for a more ‘successful’ band, whatever you definition of it would be. Oh and good luck in your search.

[One of the crowd]

Hello! It was a Pet Shop Boys release.

It's a "Tennant/ Lowe" release.

Thats why its filed under "Pet Shop Boys" in HMV then!!

[kimphilby]

Thats why its filed under "Pet Shop Boys" in HMV then!!

If I said black was white you'd say it was grey.

I work for the distribution company, it was filed as "Tennant/ Lowe, composers". Rather than "PSB, artists".
Of course HMV would put it with PSB because they want to sell more copies and would do so putting it there than in the Soundtrack department.

[NorthernLad]

The general public aren't, in my opinion, interested in searching out good music

But there's more good new music being heard and bought through a more accessible and varied media than for a very long time.

PSB aren't as successful as they were because they are two middle-aged, not particularly sexually alluring gay men who have been doing pretty much the same thing for 20+ years.
Bands like Rolling Stones still get away with it to a degree but they are legends, they have rock n' roll connotations which remain perenially cool, but then in all honesty their new release albums don't sell that well either (not in the Uk anyway). Its all about the world tours with those guys.

PSB aren't failing, particularly not with Fundamental, beacause the playing field has changed for them. You make the point about Domino Dancing being the start of the decline, well that was 18! (count 'em) years ago. So they were only ever really successful from late 1985 to autumn 1988. They've been doomed to "fail" ever since then, by your reckoning.

Well-said. As I said in an earlier post, the level of success that PSB currently enjoys is really unprecedented and unmatched by their peer 80's bands. Where is Duran Duran, Depeche Mode, Erasure and The Cure on the singles charts these days?

PSB have nothing to apologize for - they are still going strong, and they would probably be the first ones to be shocked if their singles did as well as the 86-89 period.


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