Final list of b-sides

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dannii · #16 Post by **dannii** » Wed 13 Dec 2006, 2:12 pm

and about ''In private''
it's not even questionable if it's a b-side or not
its original version, 7'' mix appeared for the first time on Minimal single so it's a new track
doesn't matter we heard it on Fundamentalism, it was in remix state
it's like when they put Goetz B. extended mix on a I'm with stupid promo and we could hear it before the original version came out on CD1, does that not make it b-side then
it's simple, if you think of The ressurectionist as a b-side, then In private is also

Tom Angel · #17 Post by **Tom Angel** » Wed 13 Dec 2006, 2:19 pm

'Pet shop boys' is blantantly a B-side as it was side b of the 1st 7" of West end Girls. I think it wasn't included on Alternative due to the publishing rights belonging to Epic, or Bobby O, something like that.

dVTB · #18 Post by **dVTB** » Wed 13 Dec 2006, 2:49 pm

dannii wrote:01. Pet Shop Boys - is this considered a PSB track or a b-side, why wasn't it on Alternative

Because EMI doesn't own the rights to it. Same with the orginal versions of West End Girls and One More Chance. "Pet Shop Boys" was the B-side to the orginal single release of West End Girls, 1984, on CBS.

20. Losing my mind
38. Confidential - *1992 demo for Tina Turner, does the demo status changes the b-side status

If you question the status of Confidential, you should also question Losing My Mind. This is also a demo of a song PSB produced for a different artist. I don't question the status of these songs, btw. Both are Pet Shop Boys productions, available as a bonus track on a PSB single, unreleased on an earlier PSB release.

27. Violence (Hacienda Version) - still not sure in which standards is this a b-side
32. In the night 1995 - same

Me neither. It's a newer version of an old PSB album track, so it's surely not a proper B-side. But once again: it's just personal opinion.

63. No time for tears - I think this actually is a b-side, 'cause it's a full new song appearing in its original version and released by PSB for the 1st time, the other was under Tennant/Lowe and on soundtrack mixed with other songs

This is exactly the reason why I included it in the Rank The B-sides survey. And even if it was on a PSB release before, it's still a different version. If you include Violence Hacienda version, then you should also include this one. And In Private too.

I see these are not added and I'm not sure if they're b-sides too:
Can you forgive her (swing version) - totally new arrangement, like hacienda

Agreed. It's on the same 'level' as Violence Hacienda version. Both are different (new) versions of a track that's available on an older PSB release.

Girls and boys - don't know about this, I know live tracks aren't considered but this is new song performed live, not too sure about this

It's a Pet Shop Boys production, a new song, unavailable on any PSB release before. So I say yes. The fact that it's live, doesn't change its status for me.

Discoteca (new version) - if we take Hacienda as b-side, then why not this too, it's in totally new treatment, Neil sings it different, it's not a mix/remix

Agreed.

Break 4 love - original version was on Home and dry, and it's a new song, not sure though.

Very difficult. The version on the Home And Dry cd is not unique. It was officially released before, on a single that's partly credited to Pet Shop Boys.

Friendly fire - this one is definately, it was on I get along DVD

Agreed. I wonder why The Gardner decided *not* to include it. The PSB version of this song only was available on a promo-cd, not on any official PSB release.

Verbal · #19 Post by **Verbal** » Wed 13 Dec 2006, 3:30 pm

dVTB wrote:It's pretty useless to have a massive discussion about this.

Yes, it is pretty useless to discuss PSB tracks on a PSB forum, isn't it...

I do not consider tracks that appear on singles that were previously on PSB's albums as b-sides. If you were to have Violence and In the night 1995 on this list, you'd also have to have West End girls's sasha remix and I want to wake up, which was a b-side to Can you forgive her, that was given a new treatment as well...

And I'm not even going to start on Absolutely Dubulous....

dannii · #20 Post by **dannii** » Wed 13 Dec 2006, 3:50 pm

dVTB, thanks, your descriptions are very useful
see, it's not useless to discuss this

dannii · #21 Post by **dannii** » Wed 13 Dec 2006, 4:15 pm

Pet Shop Boys

ok, then this is solved, it's a b-side

Losing my mind
Confidential

I shouldn't have question these, they're obviously a b-sides

Violence (hacienda version)
In the night 1995
Discoteca (new version)

I suppose these are b-sides, but it will always be questionable for some reason, the fact that hacienda appeared on Alternative doesn't have to mean that it's 100% a b-side 'cause they also didn't include ''A man could get arrested'', ''That's my impression'' & ''The sound of the atom splitting'' in their original versions

No time for tears

solved, this is definately a b-side then

Can you forgive her (swing version)

although it's on Yesterday, when I was mad single, this one is tough to decide 'cause it wasn't released on Alternative or any other Further listening discs, and Violence, Discoteca and In the night were

Girls and boys

this is probably a b-side

Break 4 love

you can never be sure about this, it's like with CYFG swing version
I suppose it's a b-side, 'cause it's on Home and dry (that means Home and dry brought 4 new b-sides lol)

Friendly fire

definately a b-side, should never be questioned
Gardner obviously forgot to include it, I think that 'cause he put Nightlife in list

dVTB · #22 Post by **dVTB** » Wed 13 Dec 2006, 4:26 pm

Verbal wrote:Yes, it is pretty useless to discuss PSB tracks on a PSB forum, isn't it...

If you decide to re-phrase me, please do it accurate. I said it's pretty useless to discuss whether a track is a b-side or not. And I also explained why. What you consider B-sides depends on the criteria you use, and those are subjective.

I did NOT write that it's useless to discuss PSB tracks on a PSB forum.

Verbal · #23 Post by **Verbal** » Wed 13 Dec 2006, 4:50 pm

Um, YES, you did. Please tell me how I could have "re-phrased" you more accurate(ly).

You started out by giving your opinions on whether tracks were b-sides, and then, you wrote, "It's pretty useless to have a massive discussion about this." You can see it in your own post. Maybe YOU should clarify what "THIS" is supposed to mean, because, in that context, you are saying that it is useless to have a massive discussion about whether PSB tracks are truly b-sides or not.

Well, if you cannot do so in a PSB forum, where CAN you?

Or are you the only one that is allowed to? Is that it? For someone that passes himself off as being so knowledgeable and level-headed, you sure have a problem with people pointing out your mistakes or even, GASP, DISAGREEING WITH YOU.

dVTB · #24 Post by **dVTB** » Wed 13 Dec 2006, 6:16 pm

*sigh* I indeed wrote it's pretty useless to have a massive discussion about whether PSB tracks are truly b-sides or not. True. And I explained why I think so.

You suggested I said "it is pretty useless to discuss PSB tracks on a PSB forum", which is NOT the same. I'm not going to explain you how to rephrase people. I suggest you use the quote button next time, rather than changing the essence of someone's elses comment.

Verbal wrote:Or are you the only one that is allowed to? Is that it? For someone that passes himself off as being so knowledgeable and level-headed, you sure have a problem with people pointing out your mistakes or even, GASP, DISAGREEING WITH YOU.

The whole purpose of a discussion forum is discussing. That's what I always said, that's what I'm here for. If I weren't interested in discussing, I would write a book and force other people to read it. Nor would I be posting on this forum. It's quite bizarre how you try to twist my words, as if I'm some dictator or teacher, who is the only wise and smart user on this forum. Those are your observations, not my words, not my idea about myself, nor my attitude.

I only *think* - and I explained WHY I think so - that it's pretty *useless* to have a massive discussion about whether PSB tracks are truly b-sides or not. For the arguments why I think so, I refer to my first post in this topic.

If you can't deal with my style of writing, my attitude, or the way I present my opinion, please file a complaint with the forum administrators or use the new "ignore" button to ignore my posts. Whatever you do, please stop bothering me.

patrick · #25 Post by **patrick** » Wed 13 Dec 2006, 6:19 pm

Joemoz wrote:I imagine PSB also consider In the night 95 or Can you forgive her? (Swing version) b-sides, which isn't really that relevant to us.

I'm pretty sure what they think about their own work is a little more relevant than the way some fan on the Internet wants to put a discography together...

dannii · #26 Post by **dannii** » Wed 13 Dec 2006, 7:33 pm

Discoteca (new version) is on CD 1 of Single-bilingual and on promo where it's one of only two tracks with Single-bilingual 7'' mix, soI guess it presents its b-side

Can you forgive her (swing version) is also on Yesterday, when I was mad CD 1 but why didn't they put it on Very FL disc or Alternative

I'm so curious what would tracklist be for Alternative 2, how would PSB compile it
hopefully not incomplete like PopArt

Joemoz · #27 Post by **Joemoz** » Wed 13 Dec 2006, 7:42 pm

patrick wrote:
Joemoz wrote:I imagine PSB also consider In the night 95 or Can you forgive her? (Swing version) b-sides, which isn't really that relevant to us.
I'm pretty sure what they think about their own work is a little more relevant than the way some fan on the Internet wants to put a discography together...

More relevant in what respect? I'm sure Neil and Chris have more important things to care about than the definition of their tracks as b-sides or what have you, and I don't think they would consider this discussion incredibly relevant or even interesting at all. Perhaps you could point to where exactly Neil has made the official distinction about the tracks, then we can make a judgement as to how carefully considered it was. Some fans, on the other hand, are very preoccupied with these things, so in many cases I would think a fan could be a better authority than Neil or Chris on their back catalogue - we know for a fact that Neil doesn't consider it his business to "know every mix", for instance, whereas many fans do.

When it all comes down to it, these things should be settled not so much by the opinion of some person (be it Neil, Steffen, Patrick, DVTB or anyone else) but by reasonable standards that we can agree on - or each to his own in the end.

At any rate, I am not personally one of the fans who find these discussions as terribly interesting, a you and DVTB obviously do, so I think I'll try and make this my final contribution to this fairly tedious thread.

patrick · #28 Post by **patrick** » Wed 13 Dec 2006, 7:48 pm

Joemoz wrote:Perhaps you could point to where exactly Neil has made the official distinction about the tracks, then we can make a judgement as to how carefully considered it was.

He put Violence (Hacienda version) on Alternative. I'm not even sure it needs to have been a "carefully considered" decision. It just is what it is.

dannii · #29 Post by **dannii** » Wed 13 Dec 2006, 8:04 pm

well, some fans find this interesting and they're more into discography
some don't find it interesting and only like to listen PSB music and if you're one of them, you don't have to post here if you don't want to discuss b-sides
I'm very into PSB discography and could discuss it all the time

Verbal · #30 Post by **Verbal** » Wed 13 Dec 2006, 8:32 pm

dVTB wrote:*sigh* I indeed wrote it's pretty useless to have a massive discussion about whether PSB tracks are truly b-sides or not. True. And I explained why I think so.

You suggested I said "it is pretty useless to discuss PSB tracks on a PSB forum", which is NOT the same. I'm not going to explain you how to rephrase people. I suggest you use the quote button next time, rather than changing the essence of someone's elses comment.

Which is interesting for you to say, seeing as how, as I said in my previous post THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU WROTE. I further asked for you to re-clarify what "THIS" meant, as the way you wrote it means that you feel it is useless to discuss, which is sheer lunacy to say, especially here, on a PSB FORUM. If we didn't do so, then why would we even be here? So we could read your blather constantly? Hardly. What you did there, was you described your opinions, then said that it was useless to discuss, thereby stating that it was ridiculous for there even to be a discussion about the topic, especially now that you, yourself, had given your opinion. In a sense, you were stating that now that you had stated your opinions, no one else's opinions mattered. Which, having read your posts for some time now, is exactly what you do. CONSTANTLY.

dVTB wrote:
Verbal wrote:Or are you the only one that is allowed to? Is that it? For someone that passes himself off as being so knowledgeable and level-headed, you sure have a problem with people pointing out your mistakes or even, GASP, DISAGREEING WITH YOU.
The whole purpose of a discussion forum is discussing. That's what I always said, that's what I'm here for. If I weren't interested in discussing, I would write a book and force other people to read it. Nor would I be posting on this forum. It's quite bizarre how you try to twist my words, as if I'm some dictator or teacher, who is the only wise and smart user on this forum. Those are your observations, not my words, not my idea about myself, nor my attitude.

I only *think* - and I explained WHY I think so - that it's pretty *useless* to have a massive discussion about whether PSB tracks are truly b-sides or not. For the arguments why I think so, I refer to my first post in this topic.

If you can't deal with my style of writing, my attitude, or the way I present my opinion, please file a complaint with the forum administrators or use the new "ignore" button to ignore my posts. Whatever you do, please stop bothering me.

WAAAAAAH! Someone disagrees with me.....

Maybe you should write your book and stop posting here. It IS your attitude. You have a lot more disagreements than most posters on this forum, if not all. Maybe it is not OUR problem that need fixing, maybe YOU are the problem....

Oh, did you like how I used the QUOTE feature? Did I use it correctly? Or did I re-phrase what you wrote?