Were re-issues remastered properly?

Message

#16 Post by **StevePSB** » Sat 06 Jan 2007, 8:46 am

Shows how much I know. I've not heard any difference/errors on Behaviour apart from it being louder!

StevePSB

Phillip · #17 Post by **Phillip** » Sat 06 Jan 2007, 11:12 am

I haven't noticed. I haven't got the time to go through them all to listen. With me alot of my stuff is just for collection (not played very often) I'm a buyer not a seller. I only need a couple of items now & I've got what I need...not just music (CD's & so on) but I've got the posters, cards, Gold Disc's & the foreign stuff from Japan & the like...I even have a PSB CD/Clock

Marcus · #18 Post by **Marcus** » Sat 06 Jan 2007, 3:37 pm

One of the crowd wrote: Rent on Actually is 5mins 08secs long
Rent on Discography is 3mins 33 secs long.

You know that I mean the difference in loudness and the presence of sounds instead of the playing time?

EricMontreal22 · #19 Post by **EricMontreal22** » Wed 10 Jan 2007, 12:46 pm

As others say this has been a trend with CDs since probably the early 90s (which is why I'd argue most CDs even from the very late 80s--when they were recorded DDD anyway--don't really need remasters despite you seeing albums from as late as 1999 being touted as remastered--sometimes it's a gimmic. Of course with PSB and even their later albums like Bilingual, which I suspect doesn't sound too different on the remaste,r you get such great extras...

But where you really notice the need for remastering tends to be early CD releases when albums were mastered first nad formost for vinyl still.

As for loudness It seemed that pre 1990 or so CDs maybe 93-94?) that were so much quiet,er I always thought part of the reason was due to vinyls on most amplifiers also playing at much lower levels, so they tried to make CDs match this but this may all be my silly folly.

I do know I'm a MASSIVE fan of Giorgio Moroder, especially his 70s productions for Donna Summer and when we got the deluxe 2 disc remaster of Bad Girls a few years back some fans did find the sound a bit too harsh (but to my ears it still sounds better than the 1986 original CD issue which was poorly done like, sadly, most of her disco CD issues). Of course that disc on its second bonus disc had a worse flub than any PSB bonus disc flub--the 12" of Walk Away was mistakenly transfered in MONO. ARGH

E

Vince · #20 Post by **Vince** » Wed 10 Jan 2007, 2:29 pm

Marcus wrote:
One of the crowd wrote: Rent on Actually is 5mins 08secs long
Rent on Discography is 3mins 33 secs long.
You know that I mean the difference in loudness and the presence of sounds instead of the playing time?

Hey!!!!! i was having a doubt over Rent as well! though i initially thought the Discography version just 7-inch edit, but one can CLEARLY hear totally different instruments being stressed on the Remastered Actually version.. on the Actually version the strings seem prominent, while on the 7 inch version the synth is louder..

synthpopfan · #21 Post by **synthpopfan** » Sat 20 Jan 2007, 10:23 pm

retrofuturist wrote:Compression has been around for YEARS and I can think of very few professional artists whose music does not utilise compression.

No offense, but you're compairing apples and oranges here. The "apples" being compression and the "oranges" being maximization.

I know what you meant retrofuturist, but the terminology is wrong.

Compressing squashes (compresses) the signal to an overall consistent volume, as used with vocal recording and such.

Maximization is when you push the volume of the signal (the full audio/song) as far as it can go to a ceiling of 0Db. When this is done, you lose a lot of dynamics of the recording itself. It's best to stay under - say about -0.2 to -0.3 as is roughly indicated by the included image:

You use the maximizer to boost the signal - and yes - you can even limit the ceiling so it doesn't fully clip the 0.0Db ceiling.

Just saying...[/img]

so heart · #22 Post by **so heart** » Fri 02 Mar 2007, 5:29 pm

finally i found this thread again

i just realized, that "your funny uncle" on my FL introspective has a panning-mistake of the vocal, just when neil starts to sing. this mistake is not on the "alternative"-version "yfu".
how about your funny uncles

?

btw: is there a thread concerning producion-mistakes of official psb-material (songs, booklets, videos...) ?

chatoyer · #23 Post by **chatoyer** » Sun 04 Mar 2007, 12:11 am

Compression on modern CDs is one of my biggest bug-bears. The best reference CDs for evaluating hi-fi systems tend to be those from the early to mid 1980s. My favourite is Circus by Erasure. Beautifully mastered.

Not sure if there's a thread, but my favourite 'mistake' isn't really a mistake at all: it's when Sylvia rolls her eyes and does a little head shake on the Montage DVD just as Neil announces You only tell me you love me when you're drunk as the part where they get a little country and western. I still crack up when I see it. Yeah, OK, Sylvia, it's a little chessy, but let's indulge your employer a bit, mkay?

so heart · #24 Post by **so heart** » Mon 05 Mar 2007, 2:06 pm

hehe... just watched it. but i had the impression sylvia is complaining about the guy who plugs in neils guitar. maybe he should have done this without appearance on stage. or he caused trouble to sylvias costume, it looks like sylvia and he stood in the way of each other for a moment...

interesting scene, though

and once again my question, can anyone confirm: "your funny uncle" on Further Listening has a stereo-mistake at the beginning, then corrected when neil starts to sing. whereas on Alternative everything is fine with that song.

Oznerol · #25 Post by **Oznerol** » Tue 06 Mar 2007, 7:10 pm

so heart wrote: and once again my question, can anyone confirm: "your funny uncle" on Further Listening has a stereo-mistake at the beginning, then corrected when neil starts to sing. whereas on Alternative everything is fine with that song.

Yes! You're right...something strange happens at 0:19 on the further listening version....

TwizzleUK · #26 Post by **TwizzleUK** » Thu 08 Mar 2007, 11:03 pm

I was browsing the incredibly comprehensive http://www.psb-discography.com this evening, and noted that there are many differences listed between the 'Further Listening' versions of B-sides and remixes and how they were originally released.

I noticed, that there was also a reported difference between the 'Actually' versions of 'I Want To Wake Up' in its remastered version, and have just confirmed this myself. There's a different vocal ad-lib from Neil at 4:21 in the remastered one, compared to the original 1987 version - very strange!

I guess the only reason for this is that PSB must record 'alternate' takes of some of their songs when in the studio, probably for them to later decide which version they want to put on a release. I then assume that when these master tapes are dug up again for remastering and rerelease, the wrong versions get remastered, meaning these slight differences in versions emerge!

Andy

so heart · #27 Post by **so heart** » Fri 09 Mar 2007, 11:55 am

TwizzleUK wrote:I was browsing the incredibly comprehensive http://www.psb-discography.com this evening, and noted that there are many differences listed between the 'Further Listening' versions of B-sides and remixes and how they were originally released.

I noticed, that there was also a reported difference between the 'Actually' versions of 'I Want To Wake Up' in its remastered version, and have just confirmed this myself. There's a different vocal ad-lib from Neil at 4:21 in the remastered one, compared to the original 1987 version - very strange!

I guess the only reason for this is that PSB must record 'alternate' takes of some of their songs when in the studio, probably for them to later decide which version they want to put on a release. I then assume that when these master tapes are dug up again for remastering and rerelease, the wrong versions get remastered, meaning these slight differences in versions emerge!

Andy

thank you for the link. at the first sight i couldnt find the lists of differences, but i will look at it with more time...
really strange, what you say about "i want to wake up" and different versions of vocals. i think you are right, they just choose a wrong version to remaster. another idea: could there be kind of post-mastering-edits? i think this normally not state of the art, but i could imagine, when you are under time pressure and finally want to add or remove sounds you have forgotten to change. those changes wouldnt be on the master tapes/master-dvd for a remaster...

TwizzleUK · #28 Post by **TwizzleUK** » Fri 09 Mar 2007, 12:12 pm

so heart wrote:
TwizzleUK wrote:I was browsing the incredibly comprehensive http://www.psb-discography.com this evening, and noted that there are many differences listed between the 'Further Listening' versions of B-sides and remixes and how they were originally released.

I noticed, that there was also a reported difference between the 'Actually' versions of 'I Want To Wake Up' in its remastered version, and have just confirmed this myself. There's a different vocal ad-lib from Neil at 4:21 in the remastered one, compared to the original 1987 version - very strange!

I guess the only reason for this is that PSB must record 'alternate' takes of some of their songs when in the studio, probably for them to later decide which version they want to put on a release. I then assume that when these master tapes are dug up again for remastering and rerelease, the wrong versions get remastered, meaning these slight differences in versions emerge!

Andy

thank you for the link. at the first sight i couldnt find the lists of differences, but i will look at it with more time...
really strange, what you say about "i want to wake up" and different versions of vocals. i think you are right, they just choose a wrong version to remaster. another idea: could there be kind of post-mastering-edits? i think this normally not state of the art, but i could imagine, when you are under time pressure and finally want to add or remove sounds you have forgotten to change. those changes wouldnt be on the master tapes/master-dvd for a remaster...

I'm sure this must happen when it comes to single releases - especially here in the UK with our strange restrictions on running times for formats. I have many mixes by Depeche Mode and New Order, for instance, where remixes are shorter on UK versions than on the other imported releases - often just by a few seconds, to fit the total running time of all tracks to less than 20 minutes. I guess these edits are probably done after the mastering process, although I could be wrong. New Order's 'Crystal' is a typical example, with the UK remixes on the CD singles being clipped down when compared to the versions on the US Maxi single. Bloody annoying, if you ask me.

I'd have thought with 'I Want To Wake Up' on Actually, it's just the wrong version that has been remastered, as it appears to simply be one single ad-lib that is different.

This 'multiple versions' syndrome could also explain why the wrong version of 'I Wouldn't Normally Do...' appears on 'Popart' - apart from the "corrected" US version.

Andy

TwizzleUK · #29 Post by **TwizzleUK** » Mon 12 Mar 2007, 7:11 pm

so heart wrote: thank you for the link. at the first sight i couldnt find the lists of differences, but i will look at it with more time...

There isn't a list of differences at http://www.psb-discography.com, just an exhaustive list of every release, running time and catalogue number in every country chronologically, with comments about discrepancies between mixes and titles included as a footnote to each release.

It does, however need some serious navigation, because at the moment it's one very long, plain text list of everything, rather than something split into an easy-to-find site with singles/albums and so on seperate!

A great resource, however.

Andy

Tomas · #30 Post by **Tomas** » Wed 14 Mar 2007, 8:50 am

From my experience, the bridge (or whatever it is, I mean the sequence between 2:15-2:30) in A Different Point Of View on remastered Very sounds somewhat tinny / foggy (worse for my ears) compared to the original (I think it's some bass or drum line). Single tracks in the song are differently emphasized?