History lesson for america!

[glennjridge]

I live here. I dont feel really f***ed except when I plop money down to see an adam sandler flick(I never learn). as a US citizen my opinion counts and I make 43.000 a year which is hardly anything to brag about.

people outside are so concerned with telling americans their money isnt worth much in other countrys. thats not exactly the angle to take with americans as it doesnt mean anything if you truly know americans. first off,I dont know many adverage americans who go over there enough for it to be a serious damage to their bank account..

You are right. Doesn't matter what's going on around the world or with the never ending war, we still have the best quality of life. Even with the considered "low income population'; that segment would create envy in other countries, yes, thanks to our tax $$$, but there is no complaining, vacations, plus everything we want.

I was in Canada a month ago, "vacationing for 4 days", the ratio exchange is lower but didn't make a difference at all. Traveler checks back to my bank account, and yes I did a lot of "damage"- it's not as simple as it seems-.

exactly. I think it comes down to the peoples mentality.I really havent come across americans I know at least who seem to be disuaded from doing what they want to do or traveling where they want to go, due to some kind of occurence in the economy at whatever time. they wanted to go somewhere, they went.

I'm not sure outsiders really understand the mindset.its really no deterrent at all.

[gregf]

As someone living off my savings, and managing some modest investments,
I follow global economics. And laugh out load when A--- calls me a socialist.

I do urge caution about war with Iran.Take a look at the map.
Iran is endless mountains, not good tank country.
There will be no land war. The generals knows this and this time will say "NO".

Bombing is unlikely to bring a regime change, just legitimise a terrorist blow-back,
a word Americans really need to understand. America is far more vulnerable to
terrorism than the Iranian revolutionary guard are to bombing.

And things are not as urgent as some say. One report I heard a few nights ago
said that even when Natanz comes online it would be 12 years before a deliverable WMD.

Far more useful would be success for upcoming Israeli-Palestinian peace conference
and declaration and recognition of a Palestinian state on 1967 borders under moderate
Fatah leadership. That really would change everything.

[glennjridge]

yeah,I'm sure it will be some kind of big airstrike aimed at nuclear facilities and the housing and buildings of the guard no invasion.I dont think the US really cares about regime change in as much as they are trying to punish Iran let the chips fall where they may.

I dont have any hope whatsoever in the palestinian issue ever solving anything at all, as from everything I've read, the palestinian people's situation while forever continually heralded by the players in the middle east in their hatred against Israel or the US are actually generally looked down upon as a people.

[Danny C]

Bombing Iran wouldnt be about making anything better. its just the logical path of karma that Iran has coming back to it thru the years. it was going to happen.

I don't really understand you here - you want to punish the people of Iran for past misdemeanours? Why don't we just drop a nuke on Berlin for WWII or London for the American War of Independence? How far back do you accumulate all this "negative karma" and since when was that any kind of excuse for attacking another country?

I understand some dont think its fair,whether anyone agree's, people have decided that they dont like the idea of that particular country getting nuclear capabilitys. in response Iran got pretty belligenrant, and in life when you go above the radar you leave yourself at the mercy of the one who has the power.

it happens to be the US. thats the reality of the earth right now.might be an arrogant tone, but thats whats happening here.Iran took the path of wanting nuclear weapons, threatened Israel in the process, and guess what, someone took notice and was given a pretext on a silver platter.

It's all gone a bit Team America here. I'm all for stopping Iran getting nuclear weapons because they have some pretty high-up people there who are just about nutty enough to use them. But you don't just go from "We must stop Iran acquiring nukes" to "We must bomb them" without first going through all the steps in between. Since when did attacking Iran become so goddamn urgent? Hell, we don't even know for certain that they definitely do want nukes.

Oh, and America doesn't have to police the world either. Nor is it the only entity on the planet with "the power" to do so.

[black]

Black says: 52 percent of Americans favor war with Iran. According to some Russian site.
Your Russian site is full of shit. Americans DO NOT WANT war with Iran, since we're currently busy f***ing where we don't belong in the Middle East in two seperate wars already.

The link to the poll is not Russian, press on it and you'll see. I agree that the Exile site shouldn't be read by sensitive people or children because it contains dirty words and images, it is created by an american journalist who is very dirty in his private life ( i read some of his articles in Russian), but his writings about politics are very witty. You may not agree, but it's fun to read.

Also, did you know Putin is vigorously expelling neutral, international election monitors from Russia, in advance of his next power-grab stunt? It's all over the international news, but you won't hear of that in Russia these days. DO check it out.

Do read this http://www.exile.ru/articles/detail.php ... LOCK_ID=35
Putin took pity on Moscow Foreign Press Corps, eh?

I mean, you can't just bomb seven shades of shit out of Iran and hope that things will instantly get better for the people suffering under that regime..

Danny, are you sure those people are SUFFERING?
That is that attitude - people who don't have what we have and what we like must be suffering and must be saved and cured.
For americans an eastern woman wearing hijab or paranja (don't know how it is in English) is suffering, but if you ask those women, for them it is american women are suffering --their men drink, dump them with children alone, regard woman as a 'partner' (as a rule temporary) - today might be one partner, tomorrow another. I guess Iranian woman would regard possibility of such approach as the most horrible nightmare.

By no means i m implying that life in Iran is better than in USA. I think life in each country has it's advantages and disadvantages, to decide what will be better for that country the one needs a lot of knowledge and experience.

[gregf]

Friends, forgive my Saturday night rambling on several topics here.

I am not an enemy of Russia.
But I am worried about the trend under Putin.
Dissidents are being murdered at an alarming rate.
For every rouble you profit comrade, there is a price to your soul.


As for the rest, I think one thing we have learnt in the last 20 years,
from Yugoslavia to Iraq, is that talking the right words before,
is smarter in the long run, than conflict. Apply to Palestine and Iran.

Even putting aside, reality, the perception of the rest of the world is that
genocide is being committed against the Palestinians, sponsored by America.
What is the profit in allowing that perception to continue.


And again, 50% of the vote plus a hanging chad, is not America.
There is much more diversity and dissent inside America than some think.
When the revolution comes, it will come from America.

Sorry.

[GalataPSB]

yeah,I'm sure it will be some kind of big airstrike aimed at nuclear facilities and the housing and buildings of the guard no invasion.I dont think the US really cares about regime change in as much as they are trying to punish Iran let the chips fall where they may.

You, vampires must be very hungry... Is patrol finishing in the usa?? May be you should use a few atom - bombs to iraninas for more dead people .. Will you attack to israel because of the same reason??? You know Israel has a lot of nuclear facilities.. Will you attack?? For peace!

I dont have any hope whatsoever in the palestinian issue ever solving anything at all, as from everything I've read, the palestinian people's situation while forever continually heralded by the players in the middle east in their hatred against Israel or the US are actually generally looked down upon as a people.

Yawwwwwwwnnn!

[Danny C]

Danny, are you sure those people are SUFFERING?

Yes, yes I am. I don't care what your "culture" is, freedom is the ideal human condition, and anyone who lacks freedom is by definition suffering.

I find it hard to believe that women enjoy being stoned to death for adultery, or that homosexuals enjoy being executed. There's no argument here, and your pathetic attempt to justify the human rights abuses of Iran as mere cultural differences is despicable.

[pet shop boy]

Danny, are you sure those people are SUFFERING?

Yes, yes I am. I don't care what your "culture" is, freedom is the ideal human condition, and anyone who lacks freedom is by definition suffering.

I find it hard to believe that women enjoy being stoned to death for adultery, or that homosexuals enjoy being executed. There's no argument here, and your pathetic attempt to justify the human rights abuses of Iran as mere cultural differences is despicable.

Despite danny's constant abuse of me, i will show my humanity above all to agree with him here.

Islamic women, PROPER islamic women not those who dress like westerners, are forced to do as islamic men say, or else.

Islam is a belief system designed for men to rule.

Jon snow of channel 4 news interviewed the saudi f*** face dictator the other day, and asked him if it were ok for women to have the freedoms western women have like drive a car etc, he said yes, IF their family allow it, meaning, the head of families (men) wont allow it, thus he gets his fascist way under the name of Islam.

THIS very thing happens in England TODAY.

[GalataPSB]

Islamic women, PROPER islamic women not those who dress like westerners, are forced to do as islamic men say, or else.

Forced? True and Wrong... Wrong. Because There is no "Using Force" In Islam In Quran and The Prophet's words...That's the difference between Islam and the other religions.

Yes It is true.. When you looked at history, After 1ww, Imperialits brought Vahabbism to the middle - east..(Saudi Arabia, UAE etc.) And they added new stupid/wrong rules. There is no "Using Force" in Islam..

Islam is a belief system designed for men to rule.

No... You think wrong..You shouldn`t realize Islam looking at S.Arabia + Libya +Egypt dictators..

Jon snow of channel 4 news interviewed the saudi f*** face dictator the other day, and asked him if it were ok for women to have the freedoms western women have like drive a car etc, he said yes, IF their family allow it, meaning, the head of families (men) wont allow it, thus he gets his fascist way under the name of Islam.

THIS very thing happens in England TODAY.

Why do you hate Sa.Arabia? Saudi Arabia was created by English Imperialists... And People are Vahabbis.According to the vahabbis, Women have no right.It is not Islam.

[pet shop boy]

There is no "Using Force" In Islam In Quran and The Prophet's words...

What about the line that says fight those of the unbelievers?

Why do you hate Sa.Arabia? Saudi Arabia was created by English Imperialists...

Should i live or die under the actions all English people past and present?

[beautyqueen85]

There is no "Using Force" In Islam In Quran and The Prophet's words...

What about the line that says fight those of the unbelievers?

Why do you hate Sa.Arabia? Saudi Arabia was created by English Imperialists...

Should i live or die under the actions all English people past and present?

I couldn't avoid it: ...and many druids have died to bring us this information. YOU PSB!

[glennjridge]

danny, NOBODY wants a nuclear Iran.the usually divided opinions which are unanimous on this particular issue arent hard to figure out. you dont give guns to children.

you would be hard pressed to make a rational argument why that leadership should have the bomb.

I dont know why people who consider themselves thinkers and progressives seem so readily to use their intellect to benefit the primitive and backwards of this world and to give them any kind of leverage.talk about contradiction.

I dont know exactly what your reffering to about the steps in between bombing refers to.
if you know a step between months of statements telling them they cant have them and issuing sanctions,I'm all ears. they got just as much leeyway as saddam got to shut all this down.

[glennjridge]

galata, the difference is nobody thinks Israel is a threat because they have nukes.

Iran on that point is a wildcard.

and thats why nobody cares about Israel having nuclear weapons yet they do on the issue of Iran.

[Danny C]

I dont know exactly what your reffering to about the steps in between bombing refers to.
if you know a step between months of statements telling them they cant have them and issuing sanctions,I'm all ears. they got just as much leeyway as saddam got to shut all this down.

Well, sanctions is a step between issuing warnings and bombing a country. Asking them to consent to inspections would be another. There are lots of diplomatic avenues that should be explored before military force becomes a valid option.

If they're going to get as much leeway as Saddam did, then they're probably already f***

galata, the difference is nobody thinks Israel is a threat because they have nukes.

Apparently the Israelis don't believe Iran is a threat either! Maybe there's not so much difference after all...