Freedom of speech Vs PSB forum rules

[pet shop boy]

You may have noticed that there are certain rules on this website that forbids certain chat.

Forum Rules

The posting of racist/homophobic/sexist or other such bigotry is forbidden. This is a multicultural forum, and such actions cannot be tolerated.

I dont think many people even know what these words mean.

Lets take homophobic. The dictionary states that being homophobic means you dislike homosexuals and homosexuality. Are we supposed to like homosexuals and homosexuality even if were straight?

Sexist
sexism
• noun prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination, typically against women, on the basis of sex.

Are we not allowed to stereotype against a woman, but women can stereotype against men, wheres the freedom in that?

Do not make posts of a graphic sexual nature.

If only

Personal threats and insults toward fellow forum members are unacceptable.

You couldn't do that towards me, i might enquire what you mean for personal enlightenment, but its a case of sticks n stones.

What constitues "abuse"? Were all different, someone COULD be offended if they were called a west ham fan, or accussed of voting lib dems, how would one know...

A Liverpool fan may be called an Everton fan, now to alot of people, that wouldn't mean much, but to the Liverpool fan, it may be highly offensive, on a par with a muslim being called a terrorist, i know i would hate being called a notts forest fan YUK!!

For example. “I disagree strongly with that.. I think this…”, as opposed to “I can’t believe you said that, you idiot!”. It’s always possible to get your opinion across without being rude or offensive.

Unless you're talking to dannyc ONLY JOKING!!!!!

So is it ok to jokingly call someone an idiot? If so, what happens if the joke isnt welcomed?

'Trolling' - the deliberate posting of messages with the sole intention of causing offence to other members - is not permitted.

Now ive been accussed of this trolling malarky, so as it says above, "sole intention of causing offence to other members", who decides to read my mind to say if my sole intention is to offend, how can anyone but ourself know this??

Answers on a postcard to StevePSB at PSB community forums forward slash dot com.

New forum members who join and 'troll' risk permanent exclusion without notice.

I wont admit, i dont care how much you thrash me, this is not sudan, and i demand a personal lie detector which i made earlier

The following is meant as a guide to behaviour on this board. If you follow this guide, you’re unlikely to upset your fellow forum members and you certainly won’t be breaking forum rules. Most of it is common sense. If you treat others as you would hope to be treated, and act like a responsible adult, you’re unlikely to go far wrong!

I like this one. Now as a youngster growing up, i was taught to respect my elders, show manners at every possible time and be kind to others. It wasn't hard, because in them days, society was a small mix of people who thought similar.

Today's society is very different, you can still show respect to others etc, as i did and then BAM, when i said something quite innocent, some folks here just called me all kinds of things, hey i brushed it off, im adult, sticks n stones n all that.

The deal here is that, because society is so diverse, we all have differing opinions, and that makes it harder for us to accept eachother, and this is why i like this rule, first rule, second line,
"1. This is a multicultural forum".

But because its a multicultural forum, means that people have different views, thus more chance of disagreeing...what a migrain this can lead to.

Steve, rather you than me mate. Im sure we'll all try and help you out, all hands on deck.

If you are unhappy with what someone has posted, bring your concerns to the attention of a moderator via a PM.

But Sir, someone just abused me for doing this, saying i cried to my mommy, *stamps feet* it aint fair Sir.

Don’t just wade in and start an argument.

I dint, i told you like the good little snitch bag that this website has now turned me into

If the other poster has broken forum rules, we’ll deal with it.

Whatcha gonna do? If you ban him, then eventually you'll ban everyone, if you dont, makes a mockery of the "rules"

If not, we’ll attempt to resolve the dispute in private. There’s no need for public arguments.

Anyone got the email address for my next door neighbours

AHEM!

This also applies if you think we have missed an infringement of the rules. We’re not robots, so there’s a chance we will miss things.

Apparently no one snitched on me, but you found what i said nay problemo hmmm

Bring them to our attention!

Right you are, tally ho, one for all and all for...er, sorry

Be especially careful when posting in topics concerning political matters. We are brought together here by our love of one band’s music, not by shared political ideology.

Love for one band? Oh of course, Erasure. Now im just being silly.

Yes, the BOYS, now men, Neil former Labour doner Tennent, now giving money to the lib dems

Let's make lot's of money. Altogether now, ive got the braun, you've got the brain.......

Political issues are some of the most divisive, so please make an extra special effort to be polite in these threads.

If you've done nothing wrong You've got nothing to fear
If you've something to hide, You shouldn't even be here
You've had your chance, Now we've got the mandate
If you've changed your mind I'm afraid it's too late
We're concerned, You're a threat, You're not integral, To the project

Try not to swear excessively.

So its ok to "swear" alot, excessive is an opinionated word.

Nottingham Forest are TWO swear words.

Thanks for your cooperation.
The admin team.

No, THANKYOU XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX



Point is, that one persons abuse/offense is anothers normality. There is no absolute.

Finally, i'd just like to make it absolutely crystal clear, that it is not my intention to offend or abuse someone unjustifiably.

[dVTB]

If you can't deal with these forum rules, you are free not to post or to find yourself a different PSB forum to post on.

Alternative forums are available at:
- http://www.tennant-lowe.com
- http://petshopboys.proboards61.com

[JSDOUVRES]

A bit of common sense might help you sometimes, but that is not in the rules so you would probably pass on that one.

[StevePSB]

The forum rules are based around common sense, respect for other forum members and the fact that any user anywhere in the world and of any age can post here. They really don't ask much of any user who frequents these forums and by and large people abide by them quite happily. I don't see that it is so difficult to post within these boundaries.

If you met a stranger on the street and they started calling you rude names, swearing at you or threatening you, would you deem it acceptable? There is little difference here as most people here don't know the rest of the members in real life.

A small proportion of people, now and in the past, seem to think the forum rules are strict draconian censorship or infringements on freedom of speech and cannot deal with them. That is fine, but at the end of the day no-one forces anyone to post here.

I am a member of several forums and this is well up there with the most 'hands off' approach to moderation of them all.

I thank everyone who uses these forums, but I especially thank everyone who uses them sensibly.


StevePSB

[pet shop boy]

The forum rules are based around common sense

Were not allowed to dislike homosexuality, but non hetrosexuals are allowed to be hetrophobic, is that common sense?

If you met a stranger on the street and they started calling you rude names, swearing at you or threatening you, would you deem it acceptable?

I would think they're mad, and would ignore them like an adult should be capable of doing, other than the psycology of finding out how their brain works in coming to that retarded conclusion.

Im just not bothered if folk use words to berate me, unless it affects me physically, or someone treats me unfairly because of it, im very mentally strong, children suffer from words spoken against them.

A small proportion of people, now and in the past, seem to think the forum rules are strict draconian censorship or infringements on freedom of speech and cannot deal with them. That is fine, but at the end of the day no-one forces anyone to post here.

Absolutely, im all for you making the rules and we stick to them however much we dont like them, that doesn't stop us asking for them to be modified if we feel an injustice.

I think its good for us all to discuss these things so we can all feel better about how we communicate.


I dont think anyone's bothered to read my original post, too blinking long, i tried to make it lighthearted, onest gov, i did

[Danny C]

Were not allowed to dislike homosexuality, but non hetrosexuals are allowed to be hetrophobic, is that common sense?

Where can you find any instances of homosexuals being "heterophobic" on these forums?

[Vince]

If you met a stranger on the street and they started calling you rude names, swearing at you or threatening you, would you deem it acceptable?

I would think they're mad, and would ignore them like an adult should be capable of doing, other than the psycology of finding out how their brain works in coming to that retarded conclusion.

And its not about meeting people on the street here, its about us coming here willingly coz we share something in common.. the PSB..

[pet shop boy]

Were not allowed to dislike homosexuality, but non hetrosexuals are allowed to be hetrophobic, is that common sense?

Where can you find any instances of homosexuals being "heterophobic" on these forums?

I cant remember any incidences. Whilst homosexuals are allowed to be hetrophobic, there is no rule to allow hetrosexuals to be homophobic.

Steve quite rightly wants us to get along, but this is made difficult with an unfair rule system.

[Undertaker]

I cant remember any incidences. Whilst homosexuals are allowed to be hetrophobic, there is no rule to allow hetrosexuals to be homophobic.

.

What you droaning on about? Who cares ffs. Are you locked up? You need to get out a bit more. You are taking trivial issues way too seriously.

[dVTB]

Steve quite rightly wants us to get along, but this is made difficult with an unfair rule system.

I do support a decent discussion about forum rules and moderation policy, but not the way you started it. You're quoting the forum rules line after line and then make cynical comments. You're searching for problems that don't exist (gays making heterophobic comments is a complete non-issue).

If you really want to discuss forum rules in a proper way, I think the two most relevant questions are:
1) are the current forum rules clear, do they cover all problems we deal with, or are adjustments necessary?
2) is the current level of moderation sufficient to maintain the forum rules properly, or is a bigger moderation team needed?

I think we should focus on the actual problems we're dealing with, rather than a theoretical discussion about things that don't happen. Since this is the biggest and most active PSB forum, it will always attract more problems. I noticed the following:

1) Banned forum members returning under new aliases.
2) Incidental racist and homophobic comments.
3) People who left to other forums, but who post here to ridiculize users of this forum.

I'm in favour of reviewing suspicious new member profiles. I'm in favour of editing posts rather than closing entire topics. And I'm in favour of a 'ban announcement' topic. See my post about it in the Support forum.

[gareth]

I have to agree completely with many of Roy's points. The banned members returning is especially frustrating as it brings the forum down and gets everyone hot under the collar as it were - see the thread I started on the PSB relevance to the Kylie documentary. I love a good debate like the next person but was pretty close to losing my rag over that one!

Pet Shop Boy - I'm not sure whether your tongue was firmly in cheek when you started this thread but you have got it all wrong IMO. Of course we have freedom of speech, but without rules complete anarchy would reign here, and on many other forums. It really is no different to any other "media" - and freedom of speech doesn't allow papers and televsion to be racist etc does it?

Don't get me wrong, I think the mods do a good job here - my main concern is whether there are enough of them to monitor and police the rules correctly.

Gareth

[gareth]

PS One forum I post on has a "card system". Basically, break the rules once and you get a yellow (a warning if you like), twice and you are banned for a period of time. Three strikes and you're gone.

Also, as and when these cards are issued / members banned, the mods make sure everyone else knows about it. Quite often the peer pressure from other members ensures that genuine members do not re-offend. If they are phony then they get banned anyway.

That seems to do the trick!

[pet shop boy]

You are taking trivial issues way too seriously.

Serious enough for you to take part

Ive said i welcome the forum rules, but i prefer equal rights for all, which the rules are against.

[pet shop boy]

You're searching for problems that don't exist (gays making heterophobic comments is a complete non-issue). I think we should focus on the actual problems we're dealing with, rather than a theoretical discussion about things that don't happen.

But could, this is why Steve provided the homophobic rule so hetrosexuals cant dislike homosexuals here, the same rule should apply equally the other way. Homosexuals should not be allowed to state they dislike hetrosexuals.

1) are the current forum rules clear, do they cover all problems we deal with, or are adjustments necessary?

They are clear, they dont cover all problems, they've created problems. Do you think adjustments are necessary?

2) is the current level of moderation sufficient to maintain the forum rules properly, or is a bigger moderation team needed?

Doesn't need more moderation, its a forum where the underage can learn from sensible adults, it should be capable of self moderation.

I'm in favour of reviewing suspicious new member profiles.

What should happen to suspicious members?

I'm in favour of editing posts rather than closing entire topics.

Me too. People will soon learn to bite their tongue, and it stops others reading bad things.

[pet shop boy]

Pet Shop Boy - Of course we have freedom of speech

Im not allowed to be homophobic, how is that freedom of speech?
A gay man on a channel 4 gay week thing recently said, that its not wrong to be homophobic, and yet its against the law to dislike homosexuals

without rules complete anarchy would reign here

Humans need rules, but they must be equal rules, not one sided as they are here.

freedom of speech doesn't allow papers and televsion to be racist etc does it?

Depends what definition of racist you're referring to?